Overcoming Fear of
“What Could Have Happened”:

Todd: [00:00:00] By the end of this episode, you’ll discover how to work on a past situation that you keep worrying could have been worse.

Todd: Welcome to Stress Management for Highly Sensitive People, a podcast helping HSPs avoid overwhelm, eliminate stress, and find true inner freedom. I’m your host Todd Smith, a facilitator of the work of Byron Katie, a way to question and reduce stressful thoughts. And you guessed it, I’m a highly sensitive person myself.

Todd: In this episode, you’ll discover how the mind gets hooked on what could have gone wrong long after the fact, and how to approach a complex situation like this when doing the work of Byron Katie, and how to see a new perspective even when it doesn’t seem possible to [00:01:00] unhook. Today is another edition of Open Session Wednesdays.

Todd: You bring your questions and stressful situations. And I facilitate you in the simple, powerful process of the work of Byron Katie. As always, I share the unedited recording so you can experience the open session just as we did.

Client: I had, um, an interesting belief or situation. It’s about something that did not happen in the past, or it did happen, but it wasn’t bad.

Client: But I am always afraid. Why did I do that? It could have been so bad. And I get scared seeing this past what could have been situation. And the situation is I’m with my family. We’re caving in Vietnam and we are, my son is I think five and we’re going through a passage and it’s deep water and [00:02:00] he’s swimming cause he can swim.

Client: He’s swimming by himself. And. It’s just so dark and deep. And what was I thinking? He was not that great of a swimmer. And I just, so today, last night, my husband went to a talk on caving and he came back and he told me about it. And I just see that situation again, like horrified, horrified that I did that.

Client: And just, I just keep seeing him like sinking down into the water. So it didn’t happen, but I, I have like trauma related to the fact that I, I did it. I can’t even believe it. I don’t know if that’s workable or not.

Todd: Yeah. Anything is workable. Distress is showing you there’s something there. And so I just trust that and we’ll see where we go with it.

Todd: There could be many different ways to, to work [00:03:00] it. Um, but let’s just brainstorm a little bit about the kinds of stressful thoughts that are running here and and then we can explore together if there’s a way to to work it and I think um like you mentioned he’s the mind is seeing him sinking down into the water right you’re seeing the black dark water deep water a little kid five years old can’t swim boy swims but maybe not that well and you’re the responsible one so all those factors are there And it doesn’t matter that it didn’t actually happen.

Todd: Your imagination has put you there. And so just be in that imagined what could be happening. And then let’s just brainstorm a little bit. Like what are some of the stressful thoughts running through your mind?

Client: Um, well, one is I could have lost him forever.[00:04:00]

Client: And, um, the other is I was so stupid

Client: and

Client: the other is, I don’t know, like that was so dangerous. Like the situation was dangerous and, and, um,

Client: yeah, I feel like it’s like, it’s like a really so strong this, that I could have lost him forever. It would have been so instant, something about the instantaneousness, like there, there would have, I wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Todd: Like if

Client: he had gone under the water, it was so black. I would. So that’s another stress.

Client: I wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Todd: That’s a good one. Yeah.[00:05:00]

Client: And then maybe why did I do that? Like, what could I have been thinking? Like, uh, you know, I, I’m like, I, maybe I can’t, obviously I can’t trust myself. Like how, how could I have done something like that?

Todd: Yeah. So as I’m listening and writing some of these down, I’m hearing how they kind of fall into two categories.

Todd: One is the like self attack. Like I’m so, I was so stupid, I can’t trust myself. Um, that kind of thing, which is probably the secondary reaction, right? Because, and then there’s the first thing, which is, this was so dangerous. That was so dangerous. Um, I could have lost him forever. Um, I. I wouldn’t have been able [00:06:00] to do anything.

Todd: I’m feeling like even though I’m lost, I could have lost him forever is like a projection into the future a little bit. But like the core of what was happening there is like, this was so dangerous. It’s so dark, so deep. He’s unable to swim and I wouldn’t have been able to do anything. about it. Like from an outsider point of view, it feels like it’s getting close to the, to the, you know, core of the stressful thoughts, uh, stressful situation.

Todd: Um, but what’s your experience as you hear all of these thoughts read back to you?

Client: No. Yeah. I, I think you’re getting it. about the core of the situation. And, um, I can feel resistance for that. That was so dangerous because it’s like, I don’t want to let, what if I find out it wasn’t so dangerous? I don’t want to let myself off the hook.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it should never be a [00:07:00] consideration when you’re trying to identify the stressful thought about what the turnarounds are going to be or what you’re going to, what you’re going to find, you know, just trust what feels closest to what’s really grabbing you. And then we’ll figure out the turnarounds if they even make sense at all.

Todd: Um, on the other hand, I don’t want

Client: to Right. So then it’s between that was so dangerous and I wouldn’t have been able to do anything. So maybe, um, I wouldn’t have been able to do anything. It feels like it a little bit because it’s imagining him sinking and then I wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Todd: Okay, that’s good. So let’s do the work on that. So you wouldn’t have been able to do anything. So that’s the thought. Let’s just get really clear on that situation. He’s going through this part where he has to swim in the cave, and it’s deep water, it’s dark, and [00:08:00] he’s five, um, and you’re his mom. So if anything happened, if he started sinking, you wouldn’t be, you wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Todd: Is it true?

Client: Yes.

Todd: And can you absolutely know it’s true? No. That you wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Client: No.

Todd: So how do you react? What happens when you’re thinking back on that situation and you believe that you wouldn’t have been able to do anything if anything had happened, if you’d started sinking? What happens?

Client: My [00:09:00] throat closes up. I feel it there first. And I just, I just can feel It’s just this definite slipping through my fingers.

Client: I just see it happening. I just see him going under the water and that’s it. Gone. He’s gone. He sinks to the, never to be found. Never to be found. And, um, and it’s a panic. It’s like, how can I, how can I change this situation? I can’t go back in time, but that’s what I want to do is like, go back and be like, no, put on a life jacket.

Client: This is crazy. So it’s like, I, I can’t go back in time, but that’s, it’s a panic to want to go back there. And, um, And then that, then the self attack, like [00:10:00] what, like, that was just so irresponsible. That was just so terrible. It’s like, it’s like criminal. Um, and I remember at the time he was swimming and then the guide was like, Whoa, wait a second.

Client: And so I, that’s kind of when I noticed like, what, what am I doing? Like I’m losing track of what’s going on. Like as if we’re in a waiting pool at home. So I, that, I remember the guide saying that and that’s when I realized what a crazy thing this was. So, um, yeah, it’s just the throat tensing, the back hurting, the wanting to go back and not being able to do it.

Client: And so it’s just like, Just have to live in hell because it could have happened and just because it didn’t I was just like so lucky and it could have happened feels like really it could have happened, [00:11:00] um, that he would have been gone forever and then I would have been living with like, then I, then I experienced, wow, what it’s like to live with that, with that happening.

Client: What my life would be like. So I see just like this huge ton of bricks. Like, no, you can’t live after that. That’s just really hell. So it’s like the first hell is him sinking. The second hell is having to go on after that.

Todd: Yeah, I’m seeing like a, almost a double powerlessness in this. Like there’s the powerlessness of, of child sinking in the dark and not knowing if you can do anything. And then there’s the powerlessness of, of that having happened in the past and you can’t get back to the past to do anything about that on top of it.

Todd: Yeah. Not to mention the future of the past, if he had [00:12:00] died. Um,

Client: yes.

Todd: So it’s so understandable that this would trip you up again and again and again.

Todd: So who would you be without the thought that you wouldn’t have been able to do anything? Imagine that you

Todd: are thinking of that past situation and you see the possibilities there. You might think, but you don’t believe or don’t have the idea that you wouldn’t have been able to do anything. Would you be seeing it from that point of view?[00:13:00]

Client: I feel a bit of relief that it didn’t happen. Like I can let in, Oh yeah, I remember when that, Oh yeah, I think that it didn’t happen. Like I can feel relief instead of dread.

Client: I can, I can put it into the past. It feels like there’s a more distance between something that happened in the past and my present

Client: without that thought.

Client: Yeah, it’s just seeing, seeing it as something that’s over and relief that it’s all turned out well and my son’s 15 and[00:14:00]

Client: I feel great grateful to the universe that it allows me to make mistakes sometimes.

Client: Yeah, so I get to have space between the past and the present. without the thought. Yeah.

Todd: And what’s the difference between how you treat yourself with the thought and how you treat yourself without the thought that you wouldn’t have been able to do anything?

Client: I feel a little bit of compassion. Like this is what happens to people when you have kind of a comfortable existence and then you’re thrown into a new environment and you’re used to it’s just people [00:15:00] die on short hikes and stuff like that. It’s just I feel more compassion and understanding for how I could have treated it a little bit too casually at the time instead of thinking I was just so terrible.

Client: I feel a little more like, yeah, that’s, again, it’s, that is like there, but for the grace of God, go I again, it’s kind of like, yeah, sometimes I just make mistakes. And um, that’s what it was, just lack of awareness, lack of familiarity, confidence, like, Oh, this is so fun. My son’s a great swimmer. And kind of like, just a mistake.

Client: And I see how people make mistakes all the time that, you [00:16:00] know, most of the time end okay, some of the time end tragically. And I made a mistake. I can, I can live with that.

Todd: So how would you turn the thought around? I wouldn’t have been able to do anything.

Client: I would have been able to do something.

Todd: Okay, so let’s look for examples. How could that be as true or truer?

Client: He, well, he probably wouldn’t have sunk without a trace. He would have struggled first. Usually people don’t go from fine to sinking. It’s

Todd: good to see

Client: there. I was very close to him. I wasn’t, wasn’t like he was so far away from me.

Todd: A

Client: lot of people were around. [00:17:00] So yeah, I see that this is not, there’s not a sea monster that’s going to drag him down.

Client: This is him swimming child. If he, you know, choked or something like that on the water, I would have been there. So I would have been able to do something there. There

Client: wasn’t that long of a stretch of water. So there was space for me to maneuver a little bit and to quickly get him to the other side. So, um, I was watching him very closely. I think someone was in front of him.

Client: So it’s really like,[00:18:00]

Client: I was probably watching him more closely than I have at other pools and the bath and all sorts of drowning places. I was actually watching him very closely. So I would have been able to do something. Um, I definitely would, would have, there is a quite a bit of space between. him sinking and, and him swimming that I would have had time to do something.

Todd: Like how big of a area was that from one side to the other?

Client: Yeah, it was, we were probably five feet in and there was another five feet to go or something like that. It was. Okay.

Todd: Like 10 feet across kind of.

Client: 10 feet, 10 feet long and maybe three or four feet wide. So I was behind him instead of next to him, but I could have, Reached around beside him too.

Client: [00:19:00] I, I had enough room to reach

Todd: Mm-Hmm.

Client: in front of him. I would’ve, I see that, I would’ve put myself under the water and pushed him up.

Todd: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

Client: If there wasn’t any other room, that’s what I would do. And he would be okay, because I could always do that. If, if we couldn’t both stay up, I, he could stay up.

Todd: So this is really, really cool and important to see that even as you go back to it in your imagination that you would have been able to do something. There were a lot of options there that stand between him swimming and him completely disappearing the way your mind would have it happen.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: And then you said that the, the guide or something said something at some point, do you remember what that was?[00:20:00]

Client: It wasn’t much. It was more like, is, are you okay? Or is he okay? Something like that. Like he was surprised. I think he was ahead and then he looked back and he was like, what the lady’s letting her son swim in the water alone. So I think he just said, is it okay? Are you okay?

Todd: Okay. Yeah. So, um, so the turnaround is I would have been able to do something and were you okay?

Todd: Okay. In that situation, when the guide asked you if you were okay.

Client: Yeah, I was and I think I was feeling like, let’s just get him out. Like, just get through this part. And, uh, I think I adjusted slightly. I don’t know [00:21:00] exactly what happened, but I remember being like, yes, and we’re, we’re getting out of this situation.

Todd: So it’s interesting how the mind will take that question, are you okay?

Todd: And then it like almost enters in a little doubt that we’re not okay. Um, there’s a little believing that starts to happen. Oh, this guide is surprised. And so first of all, I’ve done something wrong and we’re actually probably not okay. And the little panic that happens as a result of that. But even though that happened, that kind of conversation happened, can you still see that it’s possible you would have been able to do something?

Todd: If indeed he was not open.

Client: Yeah, [00:22:00] because in a way he said, is he okay? And in my mind I was like, Oh, I don’t think this is a good idea. Um, and. So we got out of it. So I was able to do something

Todd: exactly in a way It’s just like just pushing him forward a few feet and then he’s on solid ground again

Client: Yeah,

Todd: so looking back again because this all happened in the past.

Todd: It’s already done You can’t change it. How could how could you letting him swim like that? How was it possibly a good idea? After all, is there any way to look at it from that point of view, just for balance?[00:23:00]

Client: Well, one thought is that it was very clear, like, wasn’t totally clear what’s the best way to get through this space. And if he was holding onto me, he might’ve slipped off or something.

Todd: Um,

Client: and I think, I’m, I’m not sure. We might’ve put the life jacket on him after that. I’m not sure, but I feel like it was, it could have been a good thing.

Client: Number one, because it was like, okay, we’re watching him. I know he’s, is swimming on his own. So he’s, there’s no false sense of security, I guess, that he’s holding on to somebody else. And then it could be a good thing because then I was more careful after that.

Client: I really watched him. And so then there was at the end of the cave that you could jump off these rocks and swim. [00:24:00] You’re still in the cave. And, um, I let him do that too. I have a little bit of the same thing about that situation. Not as much, because it was easier to see the ways I could help. But in that situation, looking at could it be a good thing of, you know, a mother letting her son do this.

Client: For sure it was super fun for him. And he is a good swimmer. And he, you know, he was, he was a good enough swimmer. And it was fun for the kids. For my style of parenting, I guess it’s kind of like I like the kids to feel free and have fun. So, even if, yeah, even if I see as a, now like, was that a good idea?

Client: And my future self thinking about it, it’s, I can see that it was very, a very fun outing, and that I really didn’t have too many doubts of it until later on.

Todd: So the problem, The stress, the problem [00:25:00] comes from thinking about it afterwards. And that’s what we’re looking at. And so seeing the more, the reality of it, the way you originally saw it can help balance that because the mind gets so stuck on what I could have, what could have happened, which I should have done judging that I didn’t do something.

Todd: Correct. But like, without that story, did you actually do anything that wrong? If you look at it objectively,

Client: Yeah, it’s really a good way of framing that for me because I really was assessing the risk at the time. Certainly for the swimming in the boulders at the end and, you know, better after we had the correction with that first instance.

Client: So I was definitely aware, Tom can swim, like I was, I wasn’t cavalier about it. I was considered what I was allowing and what [00:26:00] was okay. So I was very much balancing risks, um, and benefits at the time. I was being thoughtful to that degree. And later on, my risk benefit calculation changes. But in the moment I was, I was definitely saying, Tom can swim.

Client: He’s okay. Like I’m watching. I’m close by. You know, had a little bit of, I definitely had a little bit of, of question in there for myself at the time, but generally I was, um, I wanted him to have this experience and, um, the joy and the fun of it and the freedom. And I was, and I was looking where we were and there was, yeah.

Todd: That’s cool to see. That’s cool to see. Because there’s good [00:27:00] reason to do what you did. You know, it’s like the opposite of being a helicopter parent, you know, where you’re just like, not even letting them do anything because you’re too worried about what could happen. And, and yes, that worry came in later, according to your judgment at the time, it seemed like that was reasonable.

Todd: And it sounds like it still sounds kind of reasonable, um, when you’re not immersed in the story that I, you know, should have done it differently.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: Like when you think, when you assess his swimming skills at that age, um, how did they measure up compared to that 10 foot, um, crossing of water?

Client: Yeah. They, they, he could easily do that.

Client: He’d been, we’d been swimming all year. We’d been traveling for a while. He’d be swimming He’d always been swimming on his own. [00:28:00] We didn’t have a life jacket. We weren’t traveling with one. So he was fully capable of doing that type of swimming.

Todd: And then when you look at the, like the darkness factor, which you’re in a cave, obviously, like how, how much was that an actual factor?

Todd: And how much is that like a, almost a, like a fear factor?

Client: Yeah, it’s definitely more like the fear of the cave and the dark. How deep was it? I don’t even know. Maybe it was only 10 feet deep. I assumed it was like a thousand feet.

Todd: Exactly. With deep, deep sea creatures and cave dwellings and, you know, something, something in there, you know, like, yeah, the imagination fills in what it doesn’t know. It fills in darkness with all kinds of boogeymen and [00:29:00] monsters and deaths and dangers. So again, we’re trying to look at it as objectively as possible just to balance that story.

Todd: Um, and, and so when you like, was there some light there or was it in pitch black that you were working?

Client: That was the, we had flashlights, flashlights. It was, it

Todd: was

Client: pitch black without the flashlights, but we had flashlights. I could see him somehow, whether it was through the flashlight or whatever. I wasn’t like, I couldn’t see him.

Client: I could see him.

Todd: Okay. So, You could see him, he was capable of swimming that far, and, and you could intervene, quite possibly. Um, in fact you kind of did, I think you said, you kind of pushed him forward at some point, uh, when that guide said something. So, these are like the, uh, Areas [00:30:00] of, like, just bringing the story down a little bit because the story goes crazy in the mind.

Todd: It just has nothing to stop it. And, and then it goes, it could have happened, it would have happened. And then I’m terrible for, you know, it just goes on and on like that. But the solid ground is, okay, this is what actually happened. These are my decisions at the time. This was the risk assessment. And so if you look at it from now, do you, can you see?

Todd: Uh, good judgment and all of it.[00:31:00]

Client: Mostly, I don’t know if I’m seeing a bit of like what other people would, like if my mind is going into,

Client: like if it’s just me and I get to be the one to say if it’s good judgment or not.

Client: I, I think I’m coming down on, I don’t know, but it’s okay.

Todd: Yeah, that’s a good place to land and there may be things you would have done differently. That’s okay too. It’s just, [00:32:00] we’re looking at, did you do anything? like crazy, like out of line.

Client: No.

Todd: So that’s, that’s the reality. The mind will make it into this was something way out of line. I, my God, I could have lost him. It would have been my fault. Like the whole fear factor will just go like crazy, but there was, there was nothing major, right? Like, yeah, there are tweaks, could have tweaked it a little, could have put a life jacket on, could have done who knows.

Client: Right.

Todd: There may have been little things you might have done differently, but is it on a level that your mind has been making it?

Client: Yeah. No, not at all. And I can [00:33:00] really see that your question about if it was dark and if it was above water, I never would have even thought about, I mean, above, if it was in the light, I would never be questioning this situation.

Client: Everything else could have been the same if it was in the light and I could see underwater, I wouldn’t even think about it. Wouldn’t even worry about drowning. So I can see that it’s, it’s just this extra element of the, of the darkness and the unknown that makes me go, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.

Client: But if that was, if that was out of it, I would absolutely a hundred percent feel comfortable letting my son swim like that and encouraging him and being there for him. So there’s no bad, I don’t see any bad judgment when I take away the darkness of the cave.

Todd: That’s really cool. So maybe it’s like a little thought experiment you can play with is like imagine lighting that cave, you know, it’s all imagination anyway, like just [00:34:00] floodlights on that cave.

Todd: What do you see there when you when you turn the lights on?

Client: Yeah, it could have even really not been that deep. My mind instantly was like, Oh my god, it’s so deep, but I don’t actually know it might not have been that.

Todd: Right.

Client: It might not have been that deep.

Todd: Could have been five. It

Client: probably wasn’t that, for that short of a time.

Client: It’s probably wasn’t like water going down a thousand feet. Probably

Todd: not. Yeah.

Client: It wasn’t. The chances

Todd: of a small space of water being like a thousand feet deep is very small. It doesn’t work that way. So if it’s like there’s gradual sloping on the outside of the, above the water, it probably can continue gradually sloping.

Todd: You never know. But the chances are, it was not. As deep as you’re imagining, and this is important to see, because all we’ve had to go on so far is your imagination of how deep it was, and that became the [00:35:00] reality in your mind. So we can counter that with a different imagination that maybe it was. kind of shallow.

Todd: Maybe it was just a few feet deep and um, who knows? Like we might have been able to stand up for all we know. I don’t know. Um, so imagination balances imagination

Client: and

Todd: that brings the fear level down, brings the, the, the mind’s tendency to exaggerate back into balance. So then just revisiting one last time the turnaround, I, I would have been able to do something.

Todd: Do you see anything more on that?

Client: Yeah. I just said, it’s, it just seems very clear. I would have been able to do something.[00:36:00]

Client: And also, I guess what I see is that if I was there, I would have been able to do like, it’s here sitting here that I’m like, I wouldn’t have done something. I wouldn’t have been able to, but if I was actually there, everything is just so much easier when I’m there. And, uh, I would have, if I was there, I would have been able to do something.

Client: If conditions had changed, it wasn’t, again, yeah, it’s It’s only the story of not being able to do something and that comes from being here where I can’t do anything because I’m in my chair.

Todd: Right. You’re years later in a different place and there’s nothing you can do from here.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: So, but you would have been able to do something if you were actually there, if it had been needed.

Todd: Yeah. And it turns out it wasn’t needed. So you didn’t [00:37:00] do anything because it wasn’t needed. And now, um, and now there’s nothing you need to do because there’s nothing happening.

Client: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Cool. Well, thank you. Thank you for this very cool inquiry. Um, such a good fantasy situation based on reality and super stressful.

Todd: And really cool to unravel a bit and, and see if there’s any balance in it. And, and I think what we found is there’s more reality there that is also in play. And there are also possibilities there that may have balanced the, the other possibilities that were, you know, the mind’s been focused on. So, thank you.

Client: everyone.

Todd: In this episode, we looked at how the mind [00:38:00] gets hooked on what could have gone wrong long after the fact. And it’s so easy for the mind to do this. The past, of course, is something that we can’t control. And so it’s easy to feel powerless. You remember that double powerlessness that came up? It’s easy to get into that state of like, oh my gosh, I don’t know if I could have done anything.

Todd: I don’t know what to do. I can’t do anything now. And you can end up getting really hooked in to the mind’s story with that. We also looked at how to approach a complex situation like this when doing the work of Byron Katie. And the approach is always the same. It’s always very simple. Get really clear about the situation and then start, uh, writing down, brainstorming, writing down the stressful thoughts that are there.

Todd: And you could see there was, uh, there were a number of different stressful thoughts that came out. And then. We went back and reviewed and found what was the, what were the thoughts or maybe the one thought that was the [00:39:00] closest to what’s causing that stressful experience. That’s the idea. Let your mind come out with all the stressful thoughts and then collate them and see if you can find which one you’d like to go in, which one feels closest to the stress.

Todd: And then finally, we looked at how to see a new perspective, even when it doesn’t seem possible to unhook. And this is that process of these, going through the four questions and turnarounds of the work. It’s a very subtle, step by step process, and it seems impossible. If you try to take this, the leap all at once, it would seem absolutely impossible to go there.

Todd: And if you try to just turn it around, there’s no way. The mind will, will balk at such a huge leap. But when you take these step by step, uh, the step by step process of going through the questioning, first of all identifying the thoughts, then questioning the thoughts, [00:40:00] and then coming to the turnarounds and gently exploring them.

Todd: It’s amazing how far the mind can come in a very short amount of time. So thanks for listening. It’s great to be here with you and I look forward to more times together. In the meantime, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.