“He Might Be Mad at Me”: Can You Question a Thought You’re Not Sure Is True using The Work of Byron Katie?

Client 2: I have a question.

Todd: Yeah, sure.

Client 2: Um, okay. So the thought that I was wondering how to do the work on. The thought that came in for me was, he might be mad at me. So [00:05:00] my son was acting weird on our trip in Hawaii, and, and I, I was like, what’s wrong? And, um, he, he was, he wouldn’t tell me, he’s just kind of shut down.

He, and so that night I was like, is he mad at me? He might be mad at me. And so I was trying to find the thought that was stressing me out. Um, and it wasn’t, it was like. I’m trying to like, so would I do the work on, like, my son might be mad at me or I don’t know what he’s mad about. Like I, I I didn’t know where to go with that.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I knew that I

Client 2: was stressed out about it and I knew that it was, it was bothering me, but I, I couldn’t quite grasp, um, what to take into the, the questioning.

Todd: Sure. Yeah, it’s, I’ve had that experience. It’s, um, it’s, it is actually a fairly common thing to have where you’re like, I’m not really sure if he’s mad at me.

And then, um, and then, but the stressful thought is the, the stress [00:06:00] is still there. So what is the stressful thought? There are really two ways to go about it. One, um, way, which I’ve done many times, and I trust it, uh, I trust the stressful thoughts as they come out and I would just write down, he might be mad at me and do the work on that, even though it’s not like a, it’s a hundred percent sure.

Just the thought that he might be mad at me can be stressing me out. And how do I react when I think he might be mad at me? And who would I be without the thought if I, if I didn’t think he might, you know, if I wasn’t thinking he might be mad at me and turn it around, he might not be mad at me. You know?

So it works as an inquiry. It works, uh, quite well. And, and that’s one approach. The other approach would be, uh, to, um. Like the fear in this is that he actually is mad at me. Um, so you can go to the worst case scenario, even though you don’t know for sure that it’s true and you [00:07:00] can imagine, or it’s not too hard to imagine that he actually is mad at you.

And so then you can just take it, uh, directly on that fear and go, okay, he is mad at me. Is it true? And then how do you react? You know, and and who would you be without the thought? He is mad at me and it’s ’cause you’re believing that he’s mad at you. You don’t even know for sure if he’s mad at you, but you’re believing he’s mad at you.

And so you can question your belief, which is he’s mad at me. So that’s also a very effective way of doing that. And then you can turn it around. He’s not mad at me, I’m mad at me. I’m mad at him. And find your examples. And it’s just another, um, what you’re doing in that particular case is you’re. Looking at your particular belief and what you thinking and, and it’s really the fear in there that, that he is that way.

But you, there’s a part of you that’s believing it. And so if there’s a [00:08:00] part of me believing it, I can do the, do the work on that. But both are fine. I’ve done both ways and they work, uh, I’d say almost equally well. It’s just a matter of try one and, um, see how it goes. Yeah.

Client 2: So, um, so if I took it from the fear standpoint and, and did, he’s mad at me.

Um, so I’d like to go a little deeper into like, so, so you’re saying that there’s a part of me that believes that it feel, it, it’s, it’s like, I would say I’m afraid of that. Mm-hmm. So I get that fear when, when I would question it, would I kind of. Like step into like, okay. Like, like imagining that that is happening.

Todd: Yes. Yeah. Okay. You would almost have to be, you almost have to create the situation that, that wasn’t quite fully [00:09:00] apparent. Um, you’re like, he might be mad at me. That’s the reality. He might be mad at me, but just step in a little closer to. Let’s just imagine this, ’cause I’m sort of leaning in this direction anyway.

Let’s just imagine, let’s just pretend that he is mad at me. Um, and see, uh, you know, the, like, the fear is there. So there’s enough of me that’s already thinking that. So then let’s just go all in and imagine that. Um, I see. Yeah.

Client 2: Yeah, because I, I think now that we’re talking about it, I think the, a big part of the stress was trying to push away the fear and like, like going back and forth between, well, you know, you don’t know if he’s mad at you and then, and then like, but what if he is right?

And so I, I can see the value in. Just going in [00:10:00] to, to one side or the other. And

Todd: yeah, that little part that says, but what if he is, that’s the part that you can just. Listen to it’s thoughts and question it’s thought, which is he’s mad at me. And so, you know, I always say there’s like a, there’s different parts of us inside.

You know, I sometimes say the stuck part and the wise part, but here it’s like there’s a fearful part. That’s saying, yeah, he really is. What if he is, you know, like that’s the part that’s believing, even though it’s not proven, but it’s kind of believing that he is mad at me. So I’m gonna take that and actually, um, question it and give it time and let it, uh, let it be expressed, um, and then questioned and maybe turned around as well.

Client 2: Hmm. Thank you.

Todd: Yeah, you’re welcome. Okay. So any other questions or [00:11:00] anybody wanna do the work?

Client: Um, I can do a worksheet. I, I’ve got one filled out. I.

Todd: Okay, great. So what is your situation first?

Client: Um, my situation is that I’m being evicted from, um, a place that I’ve rented for 34 years, and I’ve talked to lawyers at the tenants union and they say that, um. Because I’m older, I can’t be evicted. And there’s a question with mold.

There’s a lot of mold. There was a leak in my apartment. I told the landlord about it a year ago, and he had, he still hasn’t [00:12:00] fixed it. And so. You know, there’s all these things going on, and then my best friend is talking about it to her friends, and I’m a private person, and so I’m, I’m angry with her that she talking about this to her friends and, you know, I, I’m just still processing it.

Todd: Okay. Okay, so then what did you write on your worksheet?

Client: I’m angry with Janet. She’s blabbing to her friends about my pending eviction.

Todd: Okay. So, um, she’s blabbing to your friends about your pending eviction. Is that true?

Client: Yes, she told me that. Okay. [00:13:00] She didn’t say blabbing. Yeah.

Todd: Okay. I’m mad.

Client: I’m mad at her, that’s for sure.

But, but I’m, uh, you know, but she is talking to her friends about it, and I am a private person and so it seems like it goes against the grain.

Todd: Right. Okay. So we’re just, just looking for yes or no on this first question. I’m, yes. Yes. Okay. So can you absolutely know it’s true that she’s blabbing to your, to her friends about your pending eviction?

Client: Yes.

Todd: Okay.

Client: She told me.

Todd: Fine. Yep. Um, so how do you react? What happens when you

Client: I’m really angry. I’m really angry with her.

Todd: Yeah. And what are the images you see when you think of her blabbing to her friends? [00:14:00]

Client: I’m just mad at her. I just feel like it’s not appropriate.

Todd: Yeah. And then how do you treat her when you think that she has been blabbing about your eviction?

Client: I’m mad at her. I’m angry with her. I, I treat her. Probably badly or, or I treat her badly as kids. How does

Todd: it come out? Like does it come out in any things that you say or any things that you do or any, no,

Client: I, I have a phone conversation with her coming up and I feel like I wanna confront her.

Todd: Right. And she

Client: doesn’t take well to, to being confronted.

Got it. I’ve gotten emails from her husband, I’ve gotten, you know, she’s distressed by [00:15:00] it. You know, she, she’s not where we’re at. I, I would say.

Todd: Okay. Okay.

Client: So, doesn’t like to be confronted.

Todd: So do you see any images from the past or the future? When you think she’s blabbering to your friends?

Client: Yes, I do.

Todd: What do you notice? I see

Client: images from the future where she’s cowering and. Uncomfortable with what I say. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Okay. So [00:16:00] yeah. And where do you notice it in your body when you think this thought she’s blabbing to her friend? Somewhere in

Client: between my stomach and my chest.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So these are some of the effects of this thought. When you believe, when you believe or think this thought, then these are some of the reactions that happen.

Stomach imagining her, uh, in the future, and then angry, like you said. Yeah, from the beginning. So who would you be if you didn’t? If you weren’t so focused on this thought, if you weren’t, if you didn’t believe this, thought a hundred percent that she’s blabbing to her friends about your pending eviction, or if you weren’t so attached or focused on it, who would you be?

Client: I would be comfortable with her and going to [00:17:00] friends because she needs support as well. I’m her dear friend and she could use some support.

Todd: Yeah. So interesting. Without that focus on her blabbing, as you put it originally. Then you start to have a, there starts to be a almost a feeling of compassion of Yes.

Like she needs support and this is what she’s doing there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so how would you turn the thought around she’s blabbing to her friends? About my pending addiction? Or was it to my friends? I’m sorry, I may have gotten the wording mixed up. Um,

Client: what was the

Todd: original statement?

Client: I’m angry with Janet.

She’s blabbing to her friends about my pending eviction,

Todd: so let’s turn it around. She’s blabbing to her friends about your pending eviction. [00:18:00] I’m

Client: blabbing to my friends about my pending eviction.

Todd: Okay, so give me some examples how that could be as true, or if there’s some truth in it.

Are you blabbing to your friends in some way? No, I’m not.

Client: Okay. I’m not, I’m not telling anyone right now.

Todd: Okay.

So what does, what does blabbing mean to you?

Client: Gossiping.

Todd: Gossiping. Yeah. Yeah.

So I’m, we’re looking for any little way that you may be gossiping or talking to your friends about your pending addiction. I mean, [00:19:00] eviction, um. And at first it may not be any. There may not be anything. Um, but we’re just looking, that’s the point of these turnarounds. Yeah. Is just to look. Yeah. Maybe there’s some way, I don’t know.

Client: I’m not sure there is. But

did you, did, did anyone else wanna say something?

Todd: I have a one possible one if you wanna hear. Okay. Um, in a way. It’s like she is your friend. Um, so you’re telling her about your pending eviction?

Client: That’s right.

Todd: So. But

Client: she’s my trusted friend.

Todd: Yes, I get it. It’s, it’s like there’s different degrees, right? Yes.

She may be talking far and wide or maybe talking a little more, uh, beyond that, but, but there’s some little element of it there, like, okay. Yeah, I am, I’ve [00:20:00] didn’t just keep it to myself, even though, right. Even though you’re a private person, it’s like I still shared it. Um. And so the only point in finding that there’s nothing right or wrong about it, it’s just to see that it’s natural for anyone to share something that’s stressful with a friend.

Um, and so you shared with your friend, even though she’s a trusted friend and, and she shared with her friends, and it’s like, that was, it’s just sort of a. What we do. Sometimes when we get stressed, uh, we want to share. Um, it helps in some way. So again, the point of that is just to see the similarity between her and you.

They’re not, you know, she may have done it more, but there’s a common thread there.

Client: Yes. [00:21:00]

Todd: I see one other possible example as well, um, which is you’re sharing it with us right here. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, it’s, uh, it’s not, it’s not like you’re gossiping, you’re doing your work, but there’s that, just that little similarity of like, okay, what she is doing, I also do in some degrees, and it helps bring a bridge or a connection between Yes.

Between us. Yeah. So is there another turnaround? She’s blabbing to her friends about my pending eviction.

Client: I blab to my friends about my pending eviction.

Todd: That’s the one we just did there. Uh, I, I think that’s right. I think that’s what we’re just working on.

Client: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. So what’s another one? Another turnaround.

Client: I am angry with me.

Todd: We’re just turning around the part after [00:22:00] because so, because she is blabbing. Yeah. So just she is blabbing to her friends about my appending eviction. What would be another way of turning that around?

Try putting yourself on all of it.

Client: You know, it’s possible that I’m not being evicted.

Todd: Okay. Yeah, so, so maybe I. She’s blabbing to her friends about something that may never actually happen.

Client: Yes.

Todd: Yeah, that’s a good point.

So try also turning it around to yourself instead of she is blabbing to her friends [00:23:00] about your PERS pending eviction. Try. I am blabbing to myself. My pending eviction

Client: that fits.

Todd: Okay. What do you see there? How does that fit?

Client: Um,

I feel I’m, I’m carrying this around and I feel bad about, I feel bad about myself.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So even though you may not be saying much to, to others, you’re carrying it around and it’s a kind of, you know, quote unquote blabbing to myself about my pending eviction. It just points to. We humans need to process things and [00:24:00] whether we’re talking with friends is one way to do it.

Talking with ourselves is another way to do it. It just kind of happens when there’s some stress there. It the mind blabs. The mouth Blabs. Yeah.

Client: And yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. So again, we’re looking for the similarity between your experience and her, like between you and her. Yes. And that’s all.

Client: Yes.

Todd: So then turn it around to the opposite.

She is not, how would you turn it around? She’s not,

Client: well, she’s not blabbing about my pending eviction.

Todd: Okay. So how is that, how could that be true? Is there any way that that could be as true as she is blabbing? Maybe both. But can you find any elements of truth in that?

Client: Sure. What I see is that I don’t know for [00:25:00] sure that she’s gossiping about my pending of fiction.

Todd: Yeah,

that’s a really good point. The mind tends to exaggerate and make it. Like, for sure. And then make it seem like it’s even bigger than what she may actually be doing. Maybe she just talked to one friend or maybe she told, uh, you know, just maybe, maybe it wasn’t in the idea of gossip. Um, so keep playing with this.

How is it, how is it that you’re. She’s not necessarily blabbing to her friends about your pending eviction, or she may not be, even though she may be like, is it possible that there’s an element of truth?

Client: Yes, of course. [00:26:00] There’s an element of truth that she’s not gossiping about my pending eviction.

Todd: Yeah.

I mean, what to take it to the extreme, what would really gossiping be like? What would that look like in contrast to what she’s actually doing?

Client: Gossiping is just throwing out different things and saying, and judging me.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Wow. That’s a really cool distinction. That’s a really cool distinction. Do you get any sense that she’s judging you?

Client: Yes, I do.

Todd: Okay, so then, okay, so then that doesn’t work. Okay. So how is it that she, no, it works.

Client: It, it works in the overall scheme of things that judgements are really hard for me and that [00:27:00] her judging me is what is really going on, I think.

Todd: Okay. Okay. Okay, so, so what I’m, I think

Client: gossiping is judging.

Todd: Okay.

So the question is like, the turnaround is, she’s not gossiping or not blabbing to her friends about my eviction. So we’re looking for any evidence that would be, that she’s not gossiping or that she’s not, um, doing that and. I’m not sure where, what you’re finding there, but let’s, let’s keep looking. How is it possible that she’s not blabbing, not gossiping,

even though she may be doing that too, but how is it possible that it’s not as much as you think?

Client: Well, she [00:28:00] could just be talking it through. Yeah. With trusting, trusted allies.

Todd: Yeah. Just like you did with her. Yeah. Like just talking with trusted allies, talking it through, and then, yeah. And the fact that you got calls could be just other people’s natural concern, not necessarily that there was a sense of, of trying to gossip

Client: there.

Right, right. Yeah.

Todd: So it’s all in what you, how you see it. You know, she, she has shared it. That’s true. But then what was the intention behind that sharing? Right. That’s also important.

Client: Right. And I feel judged. So I think that’s really the meat of the matter.

Todd: It is. It kind of goes back to that turnaround we saw of.

I am blabbing [00:29:00] to, uh, about my pending eviction kind of to myself. So it’s like inherent in that word blabbing for you, it sounds like judging is a piece of that. It’s, and so you’re judging yourself’s a piece for being evicted, right? There’s some kind of shame there. A little bit,

Client: yes.

Todd: Yeah, so that’s, it’s really good to see that that’s you and it may not be her at all.

You can the mind if, if I’m judging myself, I will also imagine that other people are judging me. That’s, well, that’s just natural, but what the reality is is probably I’m just judging myself and they may not be judging me.

Client: I think you’re onto something with the shame. I think I feel very ashamed that this is happening to me.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And when I’m ashamed, I want to hide. I don’t want anyone to know. I don’t want anyone [00:30:00] to talk. Right? So this makes a lot of senses. So what, let’s just, um, you know, stop with that inquiry and just make, let’s make a list, brainstorm some ideas of what it. What being evicted means to you?

Why would that be shameful to you? What does, what does being evicted mean to you? Let’s just make a list and I’ll, I’ll write a few down for you.

Client: I think it’s, it’s somehow connected with being bad.

Todd: Okay. So being evicted means I’m bad.

Yes. What else does being evicted mean to your, to your mind?

Client: Well, I think we already touched on the shameful part of it. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of shame involved in being evicted,

Todd: so we can just say being evicted is shameful. Yeah. [00:31:00] These are one-liners. These are kind of underlying belief here that can also be questioned.

Just like we questioned the first statement on your worksheet. So, being evicted means I’m bad. Being evicted means, uh, is shameful. Anything else, uh, connected there for you with being evicted?

Client: You know, somehow there’s a carelessness in that. I should have seen that coming and I did. I did see it coming because the landlord died and it went to his son, and I knew in my heart of hearts that he wanted to sell the place.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I should have, I, I should have been, uh, or I was too careless or something. Um. Somewhere around [00:32:00] there. I, I should have been more careful. Uh, I don’t know how you would phrase it, but this is, this is a kind of underlying belief here. Being evicted here means I was careless, um,

Client: because I saw it.

Mm-hmm.

Todd: I

Client: saw it coming and I didn’t do anything.

Todd: Yeah. So I should have acted sooner or something like that.

Client: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: So there’s that, that those should have kind of thoughts. They have a lot of to do with shame in my experience. Yeah. You know, as long as I’m believing I should have acted sooner, then I don’t want anybody to talk about it because I feel ashamed that I, yeah.

That I did it and, and so. Yeah, so very interesting, very interesting. It starts out with, she’s blabbing to her friends about [00:33:00] my pending eviction, and as we go through it, it starts getting clearer that there’s a, there’s a shame sitting in there that, that has some other beliefs connected to it. It’s, um, you know, I should have acted sooner.

I, I, it’s shameful to be evicted. I’m bad. So good to look at. So thank you. Thank you for this work. Really nice

Client: so much, Todd. This really lifts it off in a, in a really interesting way where I can start dealing with it and in a non blaming, non shameful way.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Only thing that’s happening here is some, the mind has just gotten caught on certain beliefs, certain conclusions, and as you question those, you’ll start to feel more and more open and, yeah, free and yeah.

Less judged.

Client: Yeah. [00:34:00]