Managing Health Anxiety: The Work of Byron Katie for Highly Sensitive People

Client: We’ve talked about before, like to doing the work by actually experiencing like what the stressful thought is and what caused it in a way, but. What are your tools or like what is the best way to approach that when it seems to be harder to actually experience it? It’s like you know what it is, you know when it happened, but I don’t know if it’s like the mind not letting you like fully experience it or you just can be able to, or seem to be able to just land in there and experience that, like where you’re actually lived.

Todd: Mm. Do you have an example of that that might help, uh, make it even more clear?

Client: Yeah. I sometimes, like I have a stressful thought about my past. Mm-hmm. And [00:05:00] then it’s easy for me to go there and like experience that and see what’s going on and like really be there. But for other things that are not. I don’t know if maybe they’re like, they had less impact in my life.

Maybe that’s a cause. I don’t know if that that’s the cause or not, but for some other things that seem to be simpler or. Not that deep, then it’s a lot harder for me to be there and experience it and like get all the details that I usually get with other situations.

Todd: Ah-huh. Yeah. Yeah, that does make sense.

So the reason you can access the details from. Some experiences from the past is because they made a big impression. You made a deep impression on you, and so you remember, you know, you, what do they say? You, you remember where you were when somebody [00:06:00] died, or you know exactly where you were, what was happening when.

Somebody said something or did something. Um, so those, those strong moments, those are the ones that the mind remembers the details about the most. But if you ask me what I had for breakfast this morning, I can probably tell you, but I don’t, it’s not like it’s, it’s not as deep an impression. Um, or what did I talk about on Saturday with my partner in the car?

Okay. Maybe I, I just don’t remember. ’cause it didn’t. It wasn’t stressful, it didn’t really land. I could probably figure it out. I could probably get there, but not all the details are going to be there. So, so I think that’s one thing is that when the, when the mind gets, uh, has the stress experience like a, like it really got stressed, that’s when it tends to remember some of those details, especially from the distant past.

One way to deal with that is [00:07:00] if it’s. Like, you don’t have to work everything from the past. So, you know, there might have been things in my conversation on Saturday with my partner that I could have worked maybe, right. I can question so many things, but I don’t remember them well enough to do it justice.

It, it’s sort of so vague or so. Not making a much impression that I’m not going to spend my time trying to dig it up and try to work it. But I do remember when I was 15 and my mom asked me about, she was thinking about getting a divorce with my dad like that I remember. And so I’m, I’ve done worksheets on that in detail and, and that that works well.

Um. For me, the smaller stuff, I tend to work in the present. More things that just happened today or things that are so fresh that I can. I can remember the details, even though they weren’t [00:08:00] huge. They were kind of minor, stressful things, but they happened recently that I can remember more of the details and, and, um, that works also.

But the more stressful it is, the more I tend to remember the details. So that’s a good thing if you want to work on stressful thoughts. Probably you’re going to remember some of those details. And the other thing is you don’t have to always remember every detail to do the work. There are many times when, uh, for example, that situation with my, um, mom telling me about divorce, I remember where I was.

We, we were in the yard, we were outside. It was springtime. Uh, but I don’t remember the exact words she said. I remember the idea of what she said, but I had to like. Create that version of what it was. Again, sort of like my own version of it, and it may not be accurate. If we had a video camera there, it would say, you actually got it wrong.[00:09:00]

But that’s, that’s okay too. I don’t have to get all the details Perfect. To be able to do the work. It’s the feeling that I had, like you said, you started with the idea of experience. So I experienced it as stressful and it was, uh, like I felt like. I had to say yes, or I said, had to say it was okay. I wasn’t free to really think about what my answer would be to her question.

And there were a lot of things there that I remembered. There was like a feeling or an experience, and then I could build the details out from there, even if they’re not a hundred percent. So, I mean, those are a few thoughts there. But what do you mean by like, like what were you trying to do when you’re looking for, um.

Past experiences that had less of an impact, but you still wanted to work or something like that. Tell me more about that kind of experience that you’re looking for.

Client: I think it’s about the, the feeling [00:10:00] itself, like some pieces of work, I can really be there and almost get lost in like. What exactly happened, and I can see, like I said, like all the details of, of the things, and I can pay attention to everything that was going on.

So that sense of going back to the past with the camera myself and like being there and like seeing it, I think that’s kind of what like my experience or like my idea of experience is like. The greatest. So I’m trying to find out if it’s like I’m doing it wrong for the simple things or this, what you mentioned makes a lot of sense because it’s not that impactful in my life.

So it’s just like I don’t see everything that happened around it. Yeah,

Todd: so you might not have to do as much work on those. It’ll just be a short thing or a one liner or something smaller. Like you may not do the work at all on some of those simple [00:11:00] things if it didn’t have enough. Of an impression that you can hold it.

You know, you don’t have, if you don’t have the feeling, it’s really hard to do the work. The feeling, the work is an experience. That’s, that’s what we keep saying here is that, so you have to have some recollection of the experience of stress to be able to do the work. Um. Maybe that’s not absolutely true because you could do the work even on something that’s not stressful.

But generally I’m working on stressful thoughts, and so if it’s not stressful or if I don’t remember feeling stressed, then it becomes harder to do the work on an experiential basis. It becomes more intellectual that way. You’re starting to, you know, starting to. Think about it more than feel it. Uh, so yeah, that’s why I always say trust your stress.

Your, your, your stress will tell you what to work on next. [00:12:00] Because what is the stress doing is giving you a feeling and you can follow that feeling to the situation and then do the work on that because you’re feeling it, then you’re connected to it. If I’m not feeling anything, I, my temptation is not to do the work on it, uh, because it’s not connected to me on a very experiential level and.

It becomes more of an intellectual exercise rather than a feeling exer exercise. The power of the work for me is the, the, the feeling, the experiential, uh, thing because the thought is connected to a feeling. And so when I’m working the thought and turning it around, I’m actually working the emotion and turning it around.

They’re too connected at the same time, but if I just have the thought and somehow it’s not connected to the feeling, I can do all my turnarounds and everything, but. What’s it doing down here? Like it’s not connected. So, um, yeah. [00:13:00] Yeah. Feeling will show you where to go, and you may, maybe this is the thought, like maybe you want to question everything or you maybe want to question all your thoughts from the past, but when you really look at them, they’re, they’re.

Some of them are just not that strong, so maybe you don’t have to work them. Yeah. Maybe that’s it. Yeah. So yeah, I don’t know if that, uh, helps at all.

Client: Yeah, that really helps. Thank you. That’s pretty cool.

Todd: Cool. Sometimes I get the idea that I have to do the work on everything to, in order to get free. Right.

You know, like I have my whole childhood and there’s so many things that happened. I better work all of those in order to be free. But you can work one thought instead. I need to work all of those to be true. Be free. Is it true? And then you can leave yourself with, uh, the freedom. [00:14:00] To just work the ones that, uh, you feel called to work, that’s listening to your heart, again, listening to your experience and letting your stress point you where, uh, where to go next.

Yeah. The thing with the world of stressful thoughts is there’s an infinite number of them stressful situations. So many, you can’t work them all anyway. You don’t need to. So just following that, that guidance from inside, from your emotions, that will lead you to the next one to question. And then after that one, there’ll be a next one.

And all you need is just keep following that and you’ll always be working on something interesting and something where you do feel it. And you’ll have the experience of this meditation. And then it can touch you on a real, in a real way.

Client: Cool. Thank you.

Todd: Yeah, thank you.[00:15:00]

Client: And talking about French I, uh, fresh, I mean, not French. Fresh. I could, I could do the work on something fresh. Okay.

Todd: Something fresh. Okay. Let’s do the work on something fresh.

Client: What do you have? What’s the situation? So situation is, um, it happened this morning where my wife was. Trying to get some medicine.

And then she was there. I was with her for a good part of like the waiting, but I couldn’t do it because I needed to do some other stuff. So I left her there waiting, expecting her to just to get the medicine and get back. But then she sends me a text of like, they’re not giving me the medicine because it’s not available.

So, and it’s an important one that she needs to take. So it’s not like. One pill that you can just not take and everything is fine. So, okay. I’ve been thinking more and it’s kind of like moved from judging [00:16:00] them for being kind of like incompetent and not having everything ready to, like almost the fear of that she will get worse because of that.

Mm-hmm. So I think that touches me a lot more than them.

Todd: Yeah. I love that it’s, it’s such a good example of how stresses are layered. One on the other. Like the first obvious one is they are incompetent and the whole anger about them being, you know, not having the medicine and that, but then underneath that is if deeper fear that she will get worse, uh, without the medicine.

Yeah. Okay. Let’s do the work. So is that true? She will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine.

Yes. And can you absolutely know it’s true. People get worse.[00:17:00]

Client: No.

Todd: So how do you react? What happens when you think that she will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine?

Client: Feel powerless. Like

get into like desperation mode where I don’t know what I can do to help. I. And I think about like just going there and trying to yell at everybody to get the medicine or something done to like put some pressure on ’em so they can just give out the medicine that she needs.[00:18:00]

And then I also feel. That I’m not doing enough, you know, because I’m here. So it’s like I could be doing that instead. So I feel like I’m not doing enough and I could be doing a lot more.

I like put beat up myself in my head also a little bit because of that, and not being able to have the power just to say, oh, take the medicine that you need and let’s keep going. That’s it.

I feel limited. I feel

I feel bad for her. I feel stressed. I feel angry.[00:19:00]

Yeah, I feel that it’s not fair.

Todd: Hmm.

And do you see any images into the future when you think she will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine? I.

Client: Yeah, I immediately see her actually getting worse and who knows, even dying from it and like, so

I feel more like incapable of doing something that would help.

And I feel like even if I do those things, like nothing will change and they’ll just do whatever they do and that makes me feel [00:20:00] powerless.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So who would you be without this thought that she will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine? I.

Client: I can actually.

Go back to here right now, like she still has a little bit of medicine left, so it’s not, she run out of it.

I can see that[00:21:00]

there’s an option that we could buy some, even though they’re kind of expensive and I. We could try in the less, like in the worst scenario possible, that we can try to get some so she can have some more time until she gets the rest. So that’s a possibility that I didn’t see before.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Client: I can see that she’s okay for now. Right now she’s not having any problems, physical problems, like taking the medicine, but she’s okay. So I can see that too.

I can see that at least there’s an option to get the medicine and it’s not like she needs it and she wouldn’t get it ever or something [00:22:00] like that. So.

Todd: And if you really didn’t believe that she would get worth, or if you weren’t sure that she would get worth

who, what else, who else would you be? What would it be like? I.

Client: Would feel freer in a way.

I can’t see that actually. I can’t control any of that. I just can do what I’m already doing. So. Hmm.[00:23:00]

Yeah, I actually feel better because I’m doing what I can

and that’s all I can do anyway.

Todd: Yeah.

Okay, so how would you turn the thought around? She will get worse. If she doesn’t get this medicine,

Client: she will not get worse.

And that.

I mean, that could be true. I don’t know for sure. She’s been taking the medicine for a bit and I don’t know exactly what would happen if she stops.

Todd: Right, right.

Client: They say she can’t, but you never know. It’s like doctors don’t [00:24:00] have like the final word anyway.

Todd: Exactly.

Client: So.

Todd: So it’s the future. Nobody really can predict the future.

You don’t know for sure. She will get worse or she won’t get worse. So let’s look for any specific evidence that might support the idea that she won’t necessarily get worse. If she doesn’t get this medicine, maybe she goes for, uh, some time without this medicine. Long time without this medicine, is it possible she won’t get worse?

What is, what’s the evidence to support that?

Client: Well, there’s a possibility that all the medicines she took already actually helped her with the disease. Mm-hmm. So it could have corrected what’s wrong. So [00:25:00]

Todd: that’s an interesting point, right. Sometimes medicine is only needs to be taken for some time and then, uh, it did the main job and maybe there’s, it’s good to keep taking, but it’s not as necessary maybe.

Mm-hmm. Okay. How else could that be true? Yeah, actually that

Client: makes sense too, because she needs to go to controls and like go talk to the doctor and see if it’s actually, if she needs to keep taking it or not. Mm-hmm. Like for now she does, but that’s the. She needs to keep going and like finding out if it’s working and how much she needs to take later on, so,

Todd: okay.

So she’s still in the trial period to try to understand if the medicine is helping and how much, how long she has to take it or all of that. Is that, is that right?

Client: Yep.

Todd: Okay.

Client: So,

Todd: so. It’s possible she won’t get worse [00:26:00] if she doesn’t get this medicine. Maybe it’s not the right medicine anyway.

Client: Hmm. Right,

Todd: because it’s still just a trial.

Client: Yeah.

Maybe she doesn’t need it at all. I.

Todd: Maybe she doesn’t. Yeah.

Client: Hmm.

Todd: Sometimes medicine is, gives you a, a little kickstart, you know, it helps you get over a something and then the body’s intelligence takes over from there. Maybe I, I don’t know what she has, but these are all possibilities that she won’t get worse.

Even if she [00:27:00] doesn’t get the medicine, look at her, look at her health, her whatever, maybe other ways she takes care of herself. Is there anything there to also support the idea that she won’t necessarily get worse if she doesn’t get the medicine?

Client: Because, uh, she was kind of okay before taking any medicine anyway. Okay, so she’s actually feeling worse. Since she started taking the medicine than before. So that’s, that’s a good one right there.

Todd: Maybe this is giving her a break, but that’s interesting. Yeah. It’s kind of pointing to another turnaround. She’ll get worse if she gets the medicine.[00:28:00]

We’re looking at all possibilities here, and it’s good to look at this one. Some medicine does make you sick. It’s true.

Client: And in fact, that that one has done that. So she’s been feeling dizzy every time she’s taking it. She got more used to it, but still feeling sick after she takes it, so,

Todd: so if she doesn’t get this medicine.

Then at least the side effects of that medicine won’t be there for her. And she’ll go back to who knows, to the way she was feeling, which wasn’t perfect also, but maybe it’s not worse.

Client: It was definitely better than now.

Todd: Let me get this straight. You’re attached to this medicine that’s making her feel worse, [00:29:00] and you think that if she doesn’t get it, then she’s gonna get worse.

Client: She’s already feeling worse, right?

Todd: Yeah, and I get it still, right? Sometimes medicines make you feel worse, but they still are helpful too. So we can’t, we can’t, I’m not throwing out the medicine either, but it’s just funny to see how that gets missed in the, in the story, right? That you will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine.

So you even said she could, might even die or something. So how is it possible that. That wouldn’t happen if she never got this medicine again.

Hmm.

Client: There’s really [00:30:00] no way to know. Like that’s what the doctor said, that it could lead to death if it’s not treated. But again, that’s not 100% right. Anyway, I. Because we don’t know.

Todd: And how long does it lead to death? Like is that like over 50 years, that is a normal life, or is it over short period of time? We don’t know.

So

like if it’s a chronic disease, probably all of us have some forms of chronic disease and they do get. Worse over time, they may even kill us, but we also sometimes just think that’s normal. Mm-hmm. And it may be this is not that. Right. This could be very specific and very preventable with the [00:31:00] medicine.

But we’re looking at all possibilities. We’re just looking at our only purpose here is to open our mind to. All the possibilities. Mm-hmm. Maybe she won’t get worse.

Client: Yeah. And I’m seeing like to die, you only need to be alive. You don’t need to be healthy, you don’t need to, nothing like anybody can die at any moment. Without even being sick at all. So

Todd: yeah, you can get hit by a bus. Yeah.

Client: Not guarantee of anything.

Todd: That’s right. So we’re trying to predict the future again, in this case with medicine, trying to change the future and it’s, that’s the beauty of medicine.

It can sometimes do that, but it also. Like life may still be good [00:32:00] and even long without medicine sometimes. And it doesn’t mean you don’t try to get it, but if it’s not there and you can’t get it, it may not be the end, that’s all. Mm-hmm.

So any other turnarounds? She will get worse if she doesn’t get this medicine.

Client: And she’ll get better. She doesn’t get this medicine. Yeah. Just like we talked before, she was feeling better than now that she’s taking the medicine, so it’s very possible that she can just go back to feeling better, even though. Who knows what’s going on inside. So

[00:33:00] it’s also possible that the medicine did its job already and she would just feel better because of it, and everything would be corrected. So there’s a chance that that could happen too.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

How long did she go without medicine? Without this medicine before she got it? Um, how many, how long did she, was she okay? Even if she’s maybe still had the same issue inside

Client: years? So,

Todd: yeah.

Client: Quite a few years.

Todd: So if you stopped the medicine, if she wasn’t able to get it, she might still continue for years, uh, based on that past. Yeah.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: [00:34:00] So turn it around to yourself. She will not, she will get worse. If she doesn’t get this medicine,

Client: I’ll get worse. If she doesn’t get that medicine,

yeah, I can see that because I’m putting like all the faith in the medicine and like, ah, she needs to get it because that’s what’s going to cure her and do all the magic and all that. But yeah, that’s not necessarily true.

Todd: So when all your hope is in the medicine and she can’t get the medicine, then you get worse.

That’s what happens. She may or may not get worse. We don’t know. But you get worse for sure. Uh, because your hopes go down and your stress goes up. Yeah.

Client: Yeah. She’s the one actually saying that it’s okay. It doesn’t [00:35:00] matter. And then I’m the one feeling worse.

Todd: I love it. I love it. This is what the work is all about.

It’s fine. It turns out to be my problem, actually,

so we can take it even further. Another turnaround. I will get worse. If I, if I don’t get this medicine, which is like what we’re doing right now, this medicine of questioning my thinking,

Client: right? Because I’ll just keep building and building and going to the future and painting horrible scenarios and getting busy.

Not in a good way. That’s right.

Todd: You end up yelling at everybody at the, at the medicine place.

Client: Yeah. Or they can’t do anything at all anyway, so, right. [00:36:00] It’s like getting on a wall, trying to make it do something.

Todd: Exactly. Exactly. Doesn’t mean you can’t keep searching for doors, but doesn’t banging on the wall. That’s gonna make my head hurt really bad in the end.

That’s going to make me worse.

Yeah.

Cool. Thanks for your work.

Client: Thank you.