Can You Still Do Inner Work When You’re in a Full-Blown Trigger? (A Highly Sensitive Person Asks)

Client 2: Well, I guess since no one’s jumping in, I guess I’ll, uh, ask a question. Um, can you guys hear me or,

Todd: oh, say that again Amit, I think you froze up there.

Client 2: Um, I said I guess if no one else is gonna, um, ask anything or, um, I’ll ask a question. Um, can you guys hear me okay?

Todd: Here, you’re fine.

Client 2: Okay. Okay, perfect. And just a little bit of background.

I’m relatively new to the [00:04:00] work. Um, so I started doing it in early November. Um, was it’s, and it was funny ’cause I had seen Byron Katie’s work. Like I, when I was looking at my computer, I found some files that were like 10 years old. And, but at that time I, I don’t think I actually. Ever did it. And so I kind of started doing it and was pretty motivated.

I mean, I think I did it every day, at least once a day. And I’ve pretty much read all her books, um, in the scope of like a month or, you know, a little over a month and watched a lot of videos Okay. And stuff. Okay. Seems like your connection

Todd: is breaking up, uh, on us.

Client 2: Okay.

Todd: Okay, I hear you at the moment. Do you wanna try again?

I heard most of what you said, but not the whole thing. Okay.

Client 2: Okay. Well, basically in a nutshell is I’ve been doing the work for about a month and a half, read all of her books and was pretty enthused about it. But I’m [00:05:00] starting to find my momentum starting to wane and I think part of that kind of goes into like.

Wanting to see changes rapidly. And, and I’ve, I mean, I’ve been, um, you know, I’ve read articles on your website and there was one I read like a week or so ago that was like, I mean, obviously the pre a lot of, of the work is based on loving what is, so there’s somewhat of a contradiction there. Um, because I think part of what brings me to the work is wanting to change, but I guess my general, uh, question is just looking for some like.

What to do with like, kind of the waning motivation and I guess part of that for, if you could also just kind of address, I think for me, like in, in, um, spiritual work, like even other things I’ve done, there’s such a, um. There tends to be a, a motivation to study it and read about it versus actually doing it, watching the videos and, you know, [00:06:00] versus actually like sitting down and with pen and paper or whatever, you know, template and just doing it.

So yeah, if you could just, I mean, if you have any input on those two things.

Todd: Absolutely. Yeah. Both really relatable and uh, really good points. Um, so I. The first one was about waning motivation and that, you know, that enthusiasm when you first find something like the work or any kind of, uh, practice like this.

And I. You see the possibility. This is something genuine. This is a, when I found the work, I was like, oh my God. I was pinching myself like, oh my gosh, this is, this is what was missing that I was looking for. And um, that excitement gets you started into the process and you start doing some work and you start moving from there.

And, uh. [00:07:00] And, but excitement can only carry you so far, right? So it can happen that it starts to wane a little bit or you’re like, okay, yeah. Um, I’m not sure how long this is gonna take. I’m not sure if this is gonna get me the where I need to go. Is there another, is there another tool that I can look for?

And you start, the mind just starts. Um. Being unsettled. Uh, it’s a very common experience, especially in any kind of spiritual development program. So I think you, you mentioned that desire to want to see changes rapidly. I think that’s a big piece of it right there. Um, we’re we’re, what we need to know is how can we work with this?

Is there a way to maintain some motivation? Is there a way to maintain. Uh, a practice in some way, and I think one of them is you can actually do the work on your [00:08:00] expectations of what you’re gonna get from the work. Like, I want this to happen. Whatever your attachments are, I want this outcome. Then question it.

I want this outcome. Is it true? And see where that goes. This is using the process of the work to deal with your own, um, lack of enthusiasm or lack of, of um, kind of the, the feeling of waning motivation. Um, so. I think that’s part of it, wanting to see changes rapidly. The other is getting something out of the work, like when you do the work, noticing what the results actually are.

Um, because if. I’m doing the work and it doesn’t seem like anything’s happening, then why am I gonna continue doing the work? So I think it’s important to recognize what those results are [00:09:00] so that you begin to, um, see that the work is working and sometimes we have an idea of what the work is gonna do that is different than what the work is actually doing.

Um, but the work’s not doing nothing. Um. At least in most cases. So what I look for, we were just talking about this the other day. I measure the success of my, of my work, my doing the work in, I. When I’m in a situation that is similar to what I was working, how much am I getting triggered by that situation?

It’s not any great bells. There are no bells going off. It’s not like amazing. There’s no huge like wow or anything. It’s just this quiet. That doesn’t bug me as much as it used to. That for me is what the work is all about. That’s, those are the changes [00:10:00] that, uh, that really land that account for me. Um, so I look for that or I’m not actively looking for that, but I notice it when it happens and I just think, okay, cool.

I’m on the right track. This kind of thing. This kind of argument would just. Go out of control now. It’s, uh, easily just not getting to me in the same way. Um, that’s the kind of thing that I look for. The other thing is, um, when I’m doing the work, I. Sometimes I have these amazing ahas, like, wow, that’s so cool.

Like an insight. It’s like amazing. And other times I don’t really have that, and it’s very easy to get caught into thinking that I should have a wow or an aha to. Feel like I’m doing the work, that it’s working for me, that I’m doing a good job. That it’s, [00:11:00] that it’s that it’s beneficial to me. But work is very, very subtle.

It’s not always, um, so flashy as a big wow or aha. Sometimes they do happen and they’re great, but many times. The way I think of doing the work, the actual sitting down and going through the process, it’s like taking almost like a warm bath or something. It’s very kind of quiet. It’s pretty subtle. It’s um, just something, something nice is happening, but it’s not anything major.

It’s just a little bit of neutrality coming back into my life. A little less drama. Um, so I think that’s, those are the kinds of things that I look for that keep me, um. Kind of motivated, if you will, without being too motivated. Uh, the motivation comes from just the desire to keep, keep diving in this, keep exploring in this.

And I think of it as a long-term [00:12:00] thing. I think that’s really what happened at some point. I just made this, this is a long-term practice for me. Something I tell people, I’ll be doing this on the day I die. Um, it’s just, I’m not trying to. Get it all done and then never have to do the work again. I enjoy it enough as a practice that, um, and I see enough, uh, incremental improvement that I let that be something that I just rest on.

Okay, I’m just gonna keep doing this and, um, we’ll see what happens then. I’m not watching everything. ’cause here’s what gets in the way of spiritual practice when I’m watching for results as I’m doing them. It like interferes with the process somehow. And it also makes us measure everything and keep track and keep score and then, uh, and, and you end up throwing it out before you end up, uh, getting very far, uh, with it.

So what I love to do is find something that is, is, was [00:13:00] a genuine practice, like the work is, and then just stick with it and just keep going and keep improving and as appropriate I. Spend a little time learning about it as well. Um, but mainly it’s about practicing. So that brings us to our second, your second point, which is studying and reading about it versus doing it.

And I think both are important, but I think the most important is the doing so. Where, where people spiritually bypass is by um, thinking, oh, I’ll just read about the work. I’ll just watch a lot of videos. And, um, and that’s good enough. It is good. It is great. You are gonna get a lot outta watching videos.

You’re gonna get a lot outta reading. Um. But it pales in comparison to what you’re gonna get out of it when you actually do it.

Um,

Todd: so what I like to encourage people to do is to create a practice of it. Create a, that’s why I [00:14:00] created my Inquiry Circle group so that we have a group of people been.

Together online for over 10 years, and we do the work together. That’s all we do. We come together, we do the work, and we’re there to support each other. We can facilitate each other. We do the work in written form, we read each other and we comment on each other, but we’re just there to do the work, and so it becomes this habit.

Practice. Um, and yes, there’s courses, there’s some deepening of understanding, but that’s supplementary. Understanding is supplementary to experience. Experience is number one. And if I just have understanding, then it just becomes kind of intellectual versus, uh, something that changes my life. So anyway, I’ve kind of rambled along here, but um, I’ve touched, I think, on some of these points.

Let me know if that addresses what you were thinking about or if you have any further questions.

Client 2: Yeah, [00:15:00] definitely no, appreciate your, your input and thoughts.

Todd: Okay, cool. And that was helpful For sure. Great. It’s a, it’s a patience thing, you know, like, um,

spiritual spirituality. The spiritual growth is probably, it’s a big thing. It’s a big thing. So that’s why spiritual practice is always a practice. I. Practices are for things that are big, like learning a language is a big thing. So you have to practice, it’s a practice and do it like on and on and on, or learning an instrument or doing anything that’s, uh, larger than just, okay, going and accomplishing a small task.

This is something that has, is a combination of many [00:16:00] tasks and it’s a. It requires ongoing practice. So with that, I just resolve myself to the idea that this is, this is something that I will use to support myself through all the different ups and downs of life. Um, and there’s things like, you know, other practices of like exercise or, um.

You know, or brushing my teeth or things like that where just doing them once isn’t enough. And a lot of times we get caught up in the idea of doing the work. I’m just gonna do the work and then be done with it, and then I will never have to do it again. I’ll be free. And it’s like, yeah, well there’s free, and then there’s more free and there’s more free.

Like how much freedom do you wanna do? Do you wanna just stop? You can stop anywhere, but why settle for this much freedom you could have. You could be doing the work for years and years and be super free and yet there’s [00:17:00] more freedom that you could have. So why stop? It’s, it’s like, yeah, sure you can, but there’s always more and I like that way of looking at it, so, yeah.

Alright, so anyone else have any question or thought or anyone wanna do the work?

Client: Yeah, I have a, I have a question.

Todd: Sure.

Client: Um, I, I would like to hear your thoughts on, um, doing the work. Oh, so first of all, I’ve, I’ve been doing the work for, um, I don’t know, about five years or so, and, um, even talked to Byron Katie on some of those Zoom calls that she does in the morning.

And, um, and so it’s been in, in a regular practice for me. I’ve noticed, um, especially lately that, um, sometimes when I, when I’m, my nervous system is like really highly activated. [00:18:00] Um, I wanna do the work to feel better quickly, or, or, and also like, um, there’s, there’s something in me that knows that, uh. I kind of, it’s like, um, there’s a snowball effect happening.

Um, like an avalanche of thoughts is, is happening and I want to, there’s like this genuine like earnest part of me that just doesn’t want it to keep spiraling into like a worse spot, like into a panic attack or something. Mm-hmm. Um, so my question, or, or I wanted to hear your thoughts on doing the work while you’re highly, while one is highly activated in that stressful state.

Todd: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the only requirement for doing the [00:19:00] work is that there’s some openness that I have, some openness in me. To doing the work. If that’s there, even in a highly activated state, I can do the work and it can be, it can be powerful and it can change the situation, change my experience of it.

So there’s no, it’s not that you can’t do the work when highly activated, it just depends on your state. Um, so if a, if there’s some openness there. And the more I’ve been doing the work over the years, the more that openness is almost always there. So I can touch on that almost in any situation or in any state of mind.

But if it’s not there or if it’s not there enough to be able to, to drop in and do the work, then, then there’s no harm in waiting. Also, just waiting and saying, okay, [00:20:00] let me just do. Other things that help me cope with this highly activated state. Maybe I just go out and take a walk or go, you know, for a go for a run or go do something different, you know, distract myself.

Um, this is not a addressing the actual thing that triggered you, but it can sometimes. Sometimes just giving time, like, okay, you know what? This is gonna be a great one for me to work tomorrow. And just noting that, just having that thought. Oh yeah, that’ll be really fun. I’m, I know I’m gonna learn some interesting things on this tomorrow.

Right now, I’m just not really in the mood or doing the work on it. Um, that’s fine. That’s fine. There’s no rush on this. You can remember stressful situations from years ago and do the work on them, so I can certainly remember one from yesterday or from last week. So that means that there’s a lot of flexibility in when you do the work on something [00:21:00] and because the work is a practice of meditation and a certain amount of stillness is.

A part of that. Um, and that’s why I say openness as well, but stillness, there has to be a certain amount of stillness there and willingness to sit in the opposite and say, you know, or just sit in the question, is it true? If I’m not willing to do that, I’m just too angry, then I’ll just wait. I’ll just say, okay, you know what?

Right now I’m gonna allow myself to just be angry and I’m not gonna force it. Then at some point I may be ready to begin the questioning. The thing that is always going on internally for me when I’m doing the work is there’s a part of me that’s stressed by something like I’m angry. I’m really angry.

That part is angry, and there’s a part of me that’s wise and kind of knows, oh, I [00:22:00] should do the work on that. But. This angry part does not like to be pushed around by this part that knows how this needs to be worked, or this is probably not true, or any of that stuff does not wanna be pushed, and so this is the part that I have to pay attention to.

Is this part ready for doing the work? Is it receptive? So I’m highly activated at the moment. Is this highly activated piece of me open to even thinking about the question, is it true or who would it be without the thought or turning the thought around? If I, if that part has enough trust in the process of the work, enough trust in me, then I’m not gonna push it around either when I’m doing the work or even by doing the work.

If that trust is there, if that, if that willingness is there, then great, let’s do the work. But if it’s not there. For me to begin doing the work when I’m in that [00:23:00] resistant state is like pushing a client and saying, come on, get it together. Um, what are you doing? Like smarten up, you know, like that kind of approach.

It’s almost violent. Uh, and I don’t wanna treat that tender part of me that’s triggered with any kind of push like that, that that backfires. Um, and then this part is gonna stop trusting this wiser part because it’s gonna say, Hey, where’s the respect? I’m, I’m emoting right now. Like, why are you trying to shut me down?

Right? This is the old way. This is going back into, uh, repression or using the work. It’ll be using the work to kind of. Suppress myself as opposed to, um, letting, meeting myself with understanding which is what the work is really all about. So if I’m, if I’ve created in within myself the ability to meet a highly activated part of myself with true understanding, [00:24:00] even knowing that it may not want to even do the work at this point.

Then I’m a lot closer to being able to do the work in a highly activated state. But if there’s any sense of this has to be, um, you know, that if there’s any sense that, that I’m gonna be forced out of this, part of me is gonna be forced out of its dear belief system by doing the work and it doesn’t want to do that, then I’m gonna wait until that has.

Dissipated and that this feels safe, right? This is my client. The little stuck part of me is my client and me. The kind of wiser part of me is my facilitator. I’m, these are two parts within myself, so I’m facilitating myself. I have to create a safe space for my client to be able to do that work.

Otherwise, I’m gonna be pushing them around and they’re gonna resist and they’re gonna dislike it. So. That’s my only caution with [00:25:00] highly activated states. And you may have sensed some of that in your own experience. Uh, but if you really can hold the, if you know, if your, if your, your heart has. Faith in you.

That’s that little stress knot has faith that it’s gonna be okay to explore with the work. Uh, then great, highly activated state, bring it on. We can do the work there. Um, so it all depends on how you hold it.

Client: Yeah. Hmm. Okay. That’s helpful. Thank you.

Todd: You’re welcome. Yeah, that’s a great question. Yep. Alright.

Anyone else have a question or a thought?

You know, I’m just adding on to what I was saying there. The, the, um,[00:26:00]

one of the things that Byron Katie taught us as she trained us to, I. Be facilitators, and it was just through practice, is to question any thoughts that would push the client, that would try to change the client or try to have a certain outcome. And so with that practice, with that kind of questioning of those, those motives that we tend to have as facilitators when we question those motives then.

There starts to be a really safe space for anyone, including myself, to do the work. And so, um, that’s something else you can do is question any kind of need to have a specific outcome. Um, I need this, [00:27:00] I need this to get resolved quickly. I need to get out of this. This spiraling situation, I need to like question it.

The more that those thoughts are questioned, the less they will show up in the inquiry and the more safe that little stuck part is gonna feel. Because now it’s just showing up and it knows that it’s okay if nothing happens. If it does nothing other than just emote and just vent or something. I love having that freedom, both with clients that I work with and with myself, that we don’t have an outcome in any session.

We don’t have to get anywhere, and sometimes the client just isn’t ready to even do much and there’s a lot of just, just, you know, the stress is coming out. That’s all. It just needs to be [00:28:00] heard. Sometimes, so would

Client: you mm-hmm. I’m sorry. No, go ahead. Um, would you question even that, that genuine desire to feel, to feel better, to feel good?

Um, ’cause I, I feel like for me, and I guess there’s an assumption that maybe this is true for everybody, but I don’t know, um, that doing the work that underneath that desire to do the work is. Is a desire to feel better, to feel good, to feel free, whatever word we wanna use. So even, would you, would you suggest even questioning that desire, like, I want to feel better, maybe as a one belief,

Todd: yes, I would question that.

Okay. And it doesn’t mean like it, it can be a very interesting thing to question because what happens when you question a thought like that? It’s a good thought. The work generally does. It works, right? I do the work ’cause it works. There’s also, that’s also true, [00:29:00] but when I question the thought, I want to feel better, my attachment to that outcome becomes less and less and less.

That’s what the work does, is it allows me to be less attached to my desires. It doesn’t mean that I get rid of my desires. I, I still do wanna do the work to feel better. That’s gonna probably always be true. And it’s also not true in the sense that, um, I don’t. I don’t need it. I don’t want to feel better so much that I’m miserable unless I feel better.

You know what I mean? It’s a, so it’s the attachment to the desire that causes the, the extra layer of stress or the extra impediment to a safe space or the kind of inquiry that we’re talking about. So

by

Todd: questioning your motives, you free up that attachment within yourself and suddenly. It’s great if your desire gets fulfilled and it’s great if [00:30:00] your desire doesn’t get fulfilled.

Wonderful. If I feel better and it’s wonderful. If I don’t feel better, they’re both okay. You know, and maybe wonderful is, is pushing it like that might be the extreme version of it, but even just, it’s okay if I don’t feel better. Like, great if I feel better and okay. If I don’t feel better, that’s an open mind, that’s a, that’s a space where.

There’s no pushing going to happen, but if I need to feel better and I want to feel better, and I’m attached to feeling better, I’m gonna push. That’s what happens when I have a thought like that. I’m gonna push, I’m gonna push myself, I’m gonna push a client, I’m gonna push the stuck part of me. I’m gonna push, and that pushing is exactly what makes me not feel safe.

What makes a client not feel safe? What makes my stuck part not feel safe? So by questioning these thoughts that make me wanna push, I’m, I’m I back off and I’m, I’m much more of a container, much more of a [00:31:00] facilitator. Whatever’s going to happen. And yes, I still balance that with asking the questions. I’m challenging my stuck part.

I’m challenging my client, all that, but I’m not pushing and there’s a difference. So that’s the delicate balance of facilitation.

Client: Very helpful. I appreciate that, Todd. Thank you.

Todd: You’re welcome. Yeah. Yeah. And if you, uh, ever want to get into more of that and practice of that, the, the Work 1 0 2 course I’ve designed specifically about, um, that kind of, um, how it’s about doing spoken work, but it has mainly to do with this kind of questioning, these kinds of motives so that you can hold the space in a neutral way, that it’s also still.

Uh, useful. It’s, it’s a, it’s a coexistence of opposites there. Yeah. Hold the, hold the person in the work and don’t push them. Okay. So [00:32:00] anyway.

Client: Yeah. Thank you.

Todd: You’re welcome. Well, thank you for all, for being here and thanks for your questions. Very interesting to think about these things. The work is a very.

Subtle process. It’s a very amazing process. It’s really, it just puts us in touch with our mind and it brings awareness in a very special way. And, um, I love thinking about it. There’s, there’s so much to this. I’ve been doing the work since 2007 and I have not found myself bored with the work or, um, it’s just.

It’s always revealing something new. It’s, it’s, there’s so many layers to not only the process, but what I discover about myself when I do the process. So if you would like to participate in open sessions, like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go [00:33:00] to the open sessions page and there you can see the schedule coming up.

You can sign up to participate and that way you can join in. And, uh, bring your own questions and bring your own situations and stressful thoughts for us to, for, uh, me to facilitate you in doing the work. So while you’re at the work as meditation.com, I also encourage you to check out our community. Uh, the Inquiry Circle that I mentioned during the call Inquiry Circle was designed.

It’s been going for about 10 years and it’s designed for. Specifically making the work a practice in your life. And so we addressed that a little bit in this question, uh, that came up today. But I think it would be something that you might want to check out and see if it’s a fit for you. It’s, uh, a way of joining a community and making the work a more lively part of your daily life.

Next, I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles called Fixing Myself [00:34:00] versus Self-Inquiry.

My inner world is a mix of light and dark clarity and confusion. The part of me that is clear wants to fix the part of me that is confused. In this paradigm, things are broken or fixed, black or white, capable or not. This is the world of the strong helping the weak and the weak, depending on the strong.

It is the paradigm of codependence, and I’m not talking about external codependence here. I’m talking about the strong, clear parts of myself trying to fix the weak, confused parts of myself. It’s total codependence on the inside, and of course, this carries over into codependence on external teachers, friends, and professionals as well.

That is not the paradigm of [00:35:00] self-inquiry. Self-inquiry does not care about fixing. Fixing assumes that the parts that need fixing are not strong enough to take care of themselves. Fixing assumes that some kind of intervention is needed because the weak parts need help. They can’t do it on their own.

Self-inquiry, on the other hand, is just the opposite. Self-inquiry assumes that each part of me is wise, even the stuck parts, even the confused parts. Self-inquiry does not impose any kind of intervention on the weak parts of myself. It invites those confused parts of me to speak with no motive to change them.

Self-inquiry assumes that there is some intelligence behind that stuckness and it wants to hear it. It also assumes that the solution to any problem lies within the problem itself, so it invites the stuck part to first of all [00:36:00] be heard, and secondly, to unravel the problem itself. This is the end of Codependence through the work of Veron Katie, which is a form of self-inquiry.

My weak parts are literally being given the space and the tools to become strong. That’s why it feels so empowering. It’s not fixing or snipping or deleting or suppressing the work says, Hey, I hear you down there. Sounds like you’re in pain. What’s going on? It is listening. That is a huge part of it right there, but it’s more than just listening.

It is handing down the tools to the stuck part so that it can unstick itself and allowing as much time as it needs in order to do so. Even if it never gets there. But if you’re a fixer, you can miss self-inquiry. Being a fixer [00:37:00] means trying to be in control, trying to dominate or use some kind of force to override the problem.

This gives a superficial solution at best, and results are temporary. It also leads to self attack when the stuck parts don’t cooperate. It’s easy to end up trying to fix just out of sheer force of habit, even when doing the work. But it’s easy to spot. First, you’ll notice a resistance, then a resentment if you’re trying to force wisdom on yourself.

This is not self-inquiry. This is pure fixing in the guise of doing the work. If there’s even the slightest desire to fix myself while doing the work, it hampers the prog the process. The reason for this is that the stuck part that is crying inside senses, the bully wise part that wants to fix it, and it closes down even further.

Whereas if there is no desire to fix the [00:38:00] stuck part when doing the work, the stuck part feels safe to stand up and tell its story, even to explore how the very opposite of what it thinks could be true. So treat your stuffed parts like grownups. Stuck parts have feelings, stuck parts have wisdom. If you’re really open to self an inquiry, self-inquiry with no motive to fix or delete and no sense of superiority looking down on those stuck parts, then those confused parts could become your greatest teachers and they could literally blossom in the light of self-inquiry.

That is what the work is all about, giving the stuck parts their day. The weak becomes strong, and as they say, the stone that was discarded could become the cornerstone. To me, this is what self-respect looks like. That’s why I love self-inquiry, and we’ll end with a quote from Byron Katie, from her book, loving.

What is, [00:39:00] are you inquiring with a motive? Are you asking the questions to assure yourself that the answer you already have is valid even though it’s painful? Do you want to be right or to prove something more than you want the truth? It’s the truth that set me free for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health.

Acceptance, peace letting go and less attachment to a world of suffering are all the effects of doing the work. They’re not. Goals do the work for the love of freedom. For the love of truth. If you’re inquiring with other motives such as healing the body or solving a problem, your answers may be arising from old motives that never worked, and you’ll miss the wonder and grace of inquiry.

I.

So thanks for listening and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Share it with a friend, post something on [00:40:00] social media. Uh, leave a review for the podcast wherever you happen to listen, and stop by the work as meditation.com to get my newsletter. To participate in open sessions like the one you heard here today, and you’ll also find hundreds of articles there on the work of Byron Katie, as well as the Inquiry Circle community that I have and the Work 1 0 1, work 1 0 2 courses that I also offer.

You’ll also find virtual retreats there, which I offer four times a year and private sessions, which were a great way to work one-on-one with me. So if you’re interested in the work of Byron Katie, the work of, uh, the work as meditation.com can be a great resource for you. Thanks again for listening and I hope you have a great week.

We’ll talk to you next [00:41:00] time.