Why Seeking a Stress-Free State Might Be Hindering Your Stress Management as a Highly Sensitive Person

Todd: [00:00:00] If you’ve been listening to the podcast, you know that we’re really focused on starting with any kind of stressful situation and looking for ways to turn it around. And one of the biggest stressful situations that many of us, or all of us face is, has to do with money. It’s one of the basic things in life that have to take care of.

And I have developed a course on this topic and. It focuses on how to do the work on this area, how to go from stress to a more peaceful view of things in the area, specifically dealing with money. So if you’re interested, go to the work as meditation.com and look up the course Living with Money.

Client: We’re in the kitchen. I’m probably about. Four. And I’ve sassed my mom, and he’s gotten really annoyed with [00:01:00] me and he’s shouted at me. I’m upset with dad because he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. 

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around.

And we use the work of Byron Katie, a way to question any stressful thought. To see if there are new ways of experiencing a situation. A lot of times we think the situation is the cause of our stress, but when you look into it, our thinking about that situation is what makes something actually stressful.

So when you question your thoughts. The same situation becomes a lot less stressful or maybe becomes completely not stressful.

I’m Todd Smith and on the program today we will be listening to the open session recording. And this week there was an interesting discussion [00:02:00] about the kind of endpoint of the work. Is there a point where doing the work. If you’ve been doing it for a while, there’s just no more stress, and we had a very interesting discussion about this.

Different people shared their experiences and I think you’ll enjoy it very much. And then we also have in that same session, a bit of the work being done and someone does the work on the thought. He doesn’t know how to handle his emotions, and this was about his father when he was very young and his father raising his voice.

And so I think this is also a very interesting and powerful kind of piece of work. And then finally I will be reading from my recent newsletter called I’m Going Nowhere with the Work. So let’s dive into the work environment. Katie, together. It’s a simple way to question what you think and when you question what you think your experience can often change.

So here’s the latest [00:03:00] recording of our open session, and as always, I share the unedited recording so that you can experience this just the way we experienced it live.

Client: Anyone here that does the work? Did you find there was a time where you did the work so much that when. That your life flipped from being generally more stressful to being like you were living that kind of openness for the majority of your time. I heard Byron Katie talking about how something about how you would then live from that place of questioning and there’s like a shift did.

Or is it just like a constant practice, a constant kind of thing?

Todd: Anyone wanna share any experience? [00:04:00] 

Client 2: Yeah. I’ve been doing the work for a long time and I’ve had all of the experiences. I’ve had some things that I did the work on that I thought, this is huge. It’s gonna take me years to get through it. And then after doing the work once or twice on just a few subjects.

The whole concept just simply disappeared from my life. And I’ve had some things that I think I, I can just do a quick worksheet on this, and then it just turns into 30 worksheets and then, and they just don’t end. And then I find myself in the middle of driving and thinking literally.

Telling my phone to make another worksheet, and it, there’s like a never ending spiral. And a couple of times I’ve taken it down to the most petty thing. I don’t wanna work on that. That’s petty. I wanna work on the big stuff. So I would spend all years working on something huge.

And then get to the petty thing finally and give in, okay, I’m gonna do this petty thing. And that’s it. Whole thing breaks [00:05:00] open and it’s gone. The mind, it just, it’s judging. It’s I have the experience that my mind is trying to delay its demise.

Todd: Good one.

Yeah. Anyone else wanna share?

I can really relate to

Client: the doing the small things, Wendy. I find now that I’m just doing small things because it’s they have no motive. And I find, like you said it, they turn into the big things it seems like.

Thank 

Todd: you very much. Such a key point. I’ve mentioned it many times, but it’s always worth mentioning again that, that lack of motive [00:06:00] when doing something small. Can support you so much to go deep into that work. It’s like you’re not expecting to save your life by doing that little piece of work, so without that expectation.

Then the mind’s just open and it’s very relaxed and it in the inquiry process, and it often sees things that, that surprise it and open it even further. And so surprisingly, it touches the deeper things. Right now I’m doing the work on a. A dirty teacup that my mother-in-law left on the sink and does from time to time.

And I’m like, wash your dish. And I’m doing the work on this one little teacup, but oh my gosh, it’s got everything in there, the whole relationship, the whole everything. So yeah, I agree. Those small things are amazing. 

Client 2: Just a couple days ago, I did the work on not [00:07:00] wanting to get a haircut and wanting to get a haircut with you, Todd, right?

Todd: Yes. Nice haircut by the way. 

Client 2: Thank you. It’s 20 minutes later I got the, it’s like I came across this, oh, there’s a place just I could walk to that does haircuts, and I was able to get an appointment right away 

Todd: once the mind opens. 

Client 2: And all the fear of how it, and. 

Todd: Yeah. So getting back to your question, David what does anyone else have any thoughts about that kind of a kind of shift from being stressed a lot to being lighter, more light as a result of doing the work? Anyone have any experience with that or anything you wanna share?

Yeah, Tara, 

Client 3: it’s what I noticed is that I’m like, wow, that sounds really good. So I’m in response all [00:08:00] these. Someday. When that sounds really nice and I wish I could say that I’ve experienced it and I’m all annoyed over here and why hasn’t that happened yet?

And how many do I have to do? And it’s, I wanna say, how long is it supposed to take? And that sort of, 

Todd: yeah. So this is the exact opposite of not having a motive in doing the work. This is exactly the trap that is so enticing and so easy to fall into of, oh wow, Byron Katie describes some pretty cool things, and that sounds really nice.

And then like, when am I gonna be there and how long is it gonna take? And suddenly I’m measuring, I’m looking, I’m evaluating. When I’m doing that, my mind is caught in this I’m not there yet feeling. And so just the opposite of doing the work on some petty thing, thinking, ah, who cares? I’ll just do the work, but might as well doing, gotta do something.

Might as [00:09:00] well do the work. That kind of feeling. It’s like very motive free. That’s when the, that’s when the thing opens up more often in my experience. But yeah. It’s a very pretty picture. Oh wow. No stress or things going really smoothly 

Client: and that else have anything that thought obscures all of the good stuff that I’ve got from the work because I have had amazing shifts.

It’s just that thought makes me miss all of that. 

Todd: That’s it. That’s it. We paint such a beautiful picture of what it will be like. You know what it would be like if I were enlightened, if I was free, if I was completely stress free? I have this amazing picture in full color and it’s exaggerated probably. I don’t even know ’cause I haven’t been there.

So you’ve got this. Big picture, I take my best high and make it higher, and then think, oh, that’s gonna be amazing. [00:10:00] And then everything else gets diminished as a result of it. The wins that I have the insights that I gain, the freedoms that I experience become like, oh, that doesn’t, that’s not it.

Oh, that’s not it. That’s not it. But it is it is. It. In fact, the more I do the work, the more I realize that the freedoms that come are so they, they just feel normal. Like it’s just less stress. But you’re not even focused on that. It’s just, I feel. I feel normal. I feel it’s like fine. Oh, that doesn’t bother me.

Okay, then I’ll focus on something else. And there’s always more stress. There’s always more things to to try to stress me stressors, they’re always there. But i’ll just work on whatever comes up. And I don’t think of it myself as an end point [00:11:00] anymore. I used to think I’m gonna get to a certain place where I’m done, like my work is done and I’m just gonna be sitting in freedom.

The way I think of it is I’m constantly growing and I’m constantly evolving. And the freedom continues to grow and evolve. And so I just become freer and freer and freer and I’m, I don’t worry about getting to a point where it’s all free, like how do I define that? Anyway? It’s just a like a trap for my mind, so I just don’t go there anymore.

And, but what I notice is a lot of things just don’t bother me. Water are things roll off my. Water rolls off my back like a duck. I just don’t, it’s there’s so much openness that has come along and I just keep doing the work because it keeps increasing that. Great. That’s good enough for me.[00:12:00] 

Client 3: That helped me realize, I was thinking if you are making progress, right? Let’s say you’re on a treadmill and you gain the strength to be able to walk at a normal pace, the only way you continue to notice that is if you just continue to walk at a normal pace. You just up it a little bit and then you’re stressed again.

It’s like it’s a new challenge or you tilt it up a bit. And so I was thinking, okay. There are all these things that are stressful, but I’m taking on bigger and bigger things. Like I get, like I, I achieve the competency in some way emotionally. And then I’m like, okay, now let’s try this.

I perform for a small group now I’ll perform for a bigger group. And there are things that I do in my life, like we have Airbnb guests and people are like, how do you have all these people in and out of your house? Don’t you value your privacy? Where are all those? I don’t have any more stressful thoughts about my privacy.

So I just do this thing of having strangers in my home all the time. And then I don’t think that I’ve made progress. ’cause you’re right, it’s normal. Because I’ve taken on the next thing I’ll have a really annoying [00:13:00] stranger in my house now. It’s and then that’ll challenge me and they’ll think, look at me.

I’m so judgmental. And it’s like, what do you mean you had 40 other people and this one’s just pushing you a little bit more. And now that’s why they came into their life. ’cause before you would’ve just kicked them out, but now you would, so it’s a thank you for that because it’s, it’s rare that we don’t wanna go the next step.

Know that we wanna climb the next mountain or we wanna do the next thing, right? So you can only notice that’s what makes life interesting. Be on the plateau.

Todd: Yeah, so I can enjoy the plateau and I do enjoy it. It’s let’s rest on our laurels every once in a while. But after a while, I want the next challenge.

And that’s just nature. That’s our na, that’s our natural tendency. To want to just improve and try challenge ourselves a little more. And life does challenge us, so it will just give us the next thing. All we have to do is hang out a little while and it will come. So yeah, the idea of getting to an end point is a, I think a, it’s a concept.

It’s a concept [00:14:00] that we buy into. And then we miss the reality of how it works, which is just constant evolution. Constant evolution. I often say I’ll be doing this work till I die because I am always learning when I do it, I’m always growing. Do I have to do it? No, but I love to do it. And I, and that feels very different than I’m gonna do all this work and then be done with it.

I’m just like. Power through it and then I’ll be done. It’s same thing like I, I study French and I could say, I could just do this really intensive for a year, just do only French and just really master it. What does that mean? You can be born in France and live, speak that your whole life and you can never say you’ve mastered a language.

Yeah, there’s a lot of competency, but you can always improve. You can always grow. There’s new words to learn. I’m always learning new words in English so like why put an endpoint on it? Why put an endpoint [00:15:00] that what it almost be shows is that there’s an underlying belief that this is a chore doing the work as a chore and I want to get through that chore and then be done with it.

Or that I’m really yeah, there, there’s. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a really interesting topic to, to play with. But yeah. Does that, so does that get to your question, David, with

Client: yes. Yes. 

Todd: Okay, great. 

Client: Thank you. 

Todd: And so both things are true. Yes, I do get clearer and freer and less stressed and more buoyant.

I compare my life now to 15 years ago. It was night and day on the stress level, but it’s not okay, my work is done. No, I don’t know if it’ll ever be done. And to just, [00:16:00] there was one other point you put in there and that is something about it just becomes like automatic a bit. Yes, that is true.

Like everything, as you get used to doing the work you get used to turning things around, seeing things from different points of view and at some point that be, I don’t know, at some point it just, it becomes habitual. You start looking at things from different points of view. Turnarounds come to you just in the moment.

When you’re in any situation, you don’t have to be formally doing the work. And so I do the work formally once a day, but I also am, it’s running in me. All the time, and you never know how I’m going to turn things around and see things differently in any given moment. So yeah, that does become more lively.

All right, so anyone else have another question or want to do the work?[00:17:00] 

Oh, I think you’re muted. David, did you say something? 

Client: Can you hear me? 

Todd: Yes, I hear you. 

Client: I. I have a worksheet. If no one else I have a worksheet that I would love to work. 

Todd: Sure, yeah. Let’s do it. We’ve got got a little time here, so let’s see what we can do in maybe 10, 15 minutes.

Client: Okay. Thank you very much. And what’s the 

Todd: situation? 

Client: It’s my [00:18:00] dad. I was, I think I’ve done the work with you on this before, but I had a real motive and. We’re in the kitchen. I’m probably about four, and I’ve sassed my mom and he’s gotten really annoyed with me and he’s shouted at me. I’m upset with dad because he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions.

I want dad to keep calm and navigate situations calmly. Dad should stay calm and navigate situations peacefully.

I need Dad to communicate clearly and peacefully. Dad is angry, unconscious, and unable to convey his true meaning peacefully. I don’t ever want to interact with someone unable to remain calm.

Todd: Cool. [00:19:00] So have you done any work on this one? Is there a statement you’d like to go to? 

Client: Yeah I would go to the first one. I’m upset with dad. He doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. 

Todd: Okay. Okay. So put yourself back in that situation. You were four and you were sassing your mom and he shouted at you.

So he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. Is it true?

Client: No.

Todd: So how do you react? What happens when you think he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions? 

Client: I get scared of him. And I treat him like he’s like he’s broken. [00:20:00] I get really scared. Like I feel like terrified actually of him. So I feel like very tense.

And I mock him with my actions towards him. I make fun of him and I belittle him in my mind and say he’s an idiot for this reason, and I shouldn’t listen to him for this reason. So I bring him down.

Yeah, I get really scared and and I withhold my love from him. 

Todd: Yeah.

So who would you be without the thought, who doesn’t know how to handle his emotions when he shouts at [00:21:00] you?

Client: I could be interested in like how this human being got to this place interested to his backstory and interested to like really know who he is. So like listening and, sorry, what was the question? Who would I be without this or Yeah. I would be breathing. Breathing and. Like able to be in this situation and take space and breathe and I would be interested to know who this father is of mine. Like where did he come from?

Where, what did his life look like to when he was that age?

Yeah. Fascinated in listening to him actually. 

And not taking it [00:22:00] personally

And not taking what he’s saying as being like the law, like the judgment of God and being like, I did something wrong. There is something wrong with me. Instead being like, that’s,

that’s his opinion and. It’s pretty weighty in this household because I look up to both of these people, but,

And also there’s a middle ground, which is I could just laugh it off and just, it doesn’t have to be like. I hate or I love him. It could just be like, oh, okay, that was scary. Let’s get past that. There would be this whole gray area of navigating that situation where I’m able to just laugh it off and shrug it off and not hate him, but, just let that one go.

And that feels a lot easier. 

Yeah. That’s who [00:23:00] I would be without. And how would 

Todd: you, okay. How would you turn the thought around? He doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. 

Client: He does know how to handle his emotions.

Yeah. I know that he was an only child, and, does not handle.

Yeah, he was protective of my mom.

Todd: Even when he shouts he’s shouting. That’s your proof that he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. Even when he is shouting at you, can you find that he does know how to handle his emotions even in that 

Client: expression? Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s really good at, he’s really good at shouting.

He’s he gets his whole, he’s like a singer, an opera singer that can really get into his belly and he’s like fully there doing it. There’s [00:24:00] no he’s really in his, he’s really grounded actually, feet on the ground, like really grounded in his expressing this emotion.

Todd: How, and compare that to other ways of handling emotions. How does it stack up?

Client: Yeah. I just had the thought that actually I’m really happy that he did that because I know what it’s like to. To swallow down emotions. And I’ve even had the thought like, oh, I wish that my parents were like more, they fought more because I always had the thought that my parents just swallowed everything down.

But actually, yeah, maybe he was quite good at showing his emotions.

Todd: It is one way to handle them express them. He’s expressing it [00:25:00] very directly and maybe strongly, but he’s not swallowing it in that moment. I, 

Client: yeah, it’s very clear what he’s feeling. 

Todd: So this supports this turnaround that he does know how to handle his emotions. It may not be the way you wanted it in that moment, but he was handling his emotions.

Yeah, definitely. 

Client: Yeah, definitely in a direct way. Yeah, definitely. 

Todd: So is there another turnaround? He doesn’t know how to handle his emotions?

Client: I dunno how to handle my emotions. 

Todd: Yeah. So how could that be as true or truer when you look at it? 

Client: ‘Cause there’s an emotion in me that just wants to say, okay dad, I hear you, and let’s move on. And that emotion, I just swallowed it, there was that [00:26:00] emotion to say,

let’s move past this. And and I can see how I wasn’t communicating that with him. I went into this very hurt story and yeah, I can see that part of me was not communicating. 

Todd: Yeah. Something moves inside emotion, right? Something moves and then it doesn’t get expressed. Then I’m not handling my emotions. If I communicate there’s a chance of dealing with it. If I don’t, then I can hold onto that for years.

And is there another turnaround? He doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. 

Client: He doesn’t not know how to handle his [00:27:00] emotions. Isn’t that the same as, okay. 

Todd: Similar to He does know how to, yeah. How about put it, change the direction towards him, I don’t know how to handle 

Client: his emotions. 

Todd: His emotions.

Client: Yeah.

Yeah. I didn’t I don’t, I didn’t know how to handle his emotions. His,

I didn’t know how to handle his motions.

Todd: Oh yeah.

Oh God.

Client: Yeah. He was just, he just [00:28:00] loved my mom, I think, in his own way. And I think I didn’t know how to handle that. He, that he loved my that he loved my mom.

Yeah. So I wasn’t handling that. He had positive emotions. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s just so sweet, because it’s like he’s been dead for I don’t know how many years, and it’s like this work, I’m feeling like I’m getting to know him.

Yeah, I can see that. In that situation, I didn’t know how to handle his emotions, and it’s just yeah, he can be happy. He can care about his wife, he can protect her from people sassing her. It’s yeah, I didn’t know how to handle his emotions. 

Yeah.[00:29:00] 

Todd: It’s a nice combination, these turnarounds, like he does know how to handle his emotions and I don’t know how to handle his emotions or my emotions. Yeah. And it’s, yeah, it just, it’s different picture. Yeah.

Excellent. Thank you for your work. Thank you.

If you would like to participate in open sessions, then go to the work as meditation.com and you’ll see a page there where you can sign up, become a participant, and then once you do, you can ask your questions and participate just like you heard these participants. Today is a great way to. Do the work.

It’s also a great way to join us in our discussions and to ask questions that may be bugging you about your [00:30:00] own practice of the work. And while you’re there, I also encourage you to look at the work 1 0 1. This is my in-depth online course, and you will find that there’s a lot covered in this course of 45 lessons and there’s a a lot of practice of the work as well as a lot of understanding of how to do the work.

If you really want to get into this practice, then I highly encourage you to take the work 1 0 1, and you’ll find that at the work as meditation.com, and then the work 1 0 1.

Next, I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles called I’m Going Nowhere with the work.

Doing the work is like watching raindrops on water. Most would call it boring. I call it beautiful, fascinating, and amazing. I’m [00:31:00] going nowhere with the work. The work of Byron Katie is a subtle process of increasing awareness, but it’s easy to turn this into a goal and to become discouraged when progressed.

Progress isn’t fast enough. A participant in the work 1 0 1 wrote me recently asking about this experience for her. She described it as walking, but not getting anywhere. Have you had this experience? We start the work because we need it. Usually it’s a feeling of being stuck or frustrated or powerless that brings people to the work.

They’re looking to relieve some stress. And from this perspective, there is a clear goal and a path to follow. Do the work and the suffering will decrease. The extreme version is do the work enough and the suffering will disappear. This is the hidden promise we often [00:32:00] see in the work, and if we’re not making progress in that direction, we judge the work or ourselves as not good enough.

This leads to frustration and usually quitting. What if we reframed it? What if we questioned the idea that we need the work at all? I have done this and I find that the work is just a reminder to come back to my own experience, a reminder to come back to myself instead of focusing on how things should be different.

I do this all the time without the work. I have done this all my life without the work. I think we all do. So do I really need the work? Of course not. The work is just a speedy way that works for me to bring me back home when I see it this way. I love to do the work, but I don’t need it. I’m not obsessed with it.

I simply enjoy [00:33:00] it, and that’s when the work really opens up when I don’t need the work and I enjoy it. Instead, I slow down. This is the opposite of trying to use the work to hurry up and get free. Ironically, if I keep doing the work, I get much more out of it and it’s nothing showy. No miracles, no. Wow.

Just quiet, easiness. So my question to this participant was this, you need to get somewhere with the work. Is it true? Who would you be without that thought? I can feel the difference just thinking about it without this concept of getting somewhere I’m free. I’m really in touch with whatever I find. Maybe I find my original statement is true.

After all, maybe I discover some new insight. Maybe I feel no different. Maybe I feel a [00:34:00] shift without any idea of needing to get somewhere. I’m free to experience all of it. This is loving what is not. Someday I will be free. Not I’m making progress, or not just openness itself. Open to feeling bad, open to feeling better, open to not feeling any difference.

Exploring with an open mind and the richness of the universe can be tasted with such an open mind. So next time you think I’m getting nowhere with the work, be grateful you have arrived. I can hear talking heads now we’re on a road to nowhere. Come on inside. Taking that road ride to nowhere. We’ll take that ride.

So join us on the road to nowhere. [00:35:00] When you feel like you need to get somewhere with the work or whether you just want to explore, join us for the heart of this practice, start the work 1 0 1 anytime, and join us for Inquiry Circle afterwards, or join us for one of our virtual retreats. It’s more fun going nowhere with others who are going there too.

And here’s a quote from Byron Katie in her book, A thousand Names for Joy. Mind appears to flow everywhere, but it is the unmoving, the never having moved. It appears as everything. Eventually it sees that nowhere is where it is.