Revisiting Stressful Emotions in Turnarounds: Healing vs. Re-Traumatizing

Todd: [00:00:00] If you enjoy listening to this podcast and following along as people do the work of Byron Katie, you may really enjoy spending a weekend doing the work of Byron Katie in a online retreat. I do these virtual retreats four times a year, and they’re for a whole weekend, and we have sessions available for you to choose from around the clock so it works in any time zone.

And there are two hour sessions and there are eight two hour sessions each day for a total of 16 sessions. So you can come to as many as you like. I’m there for about half of them, and it’s a great way to go in a little deeper. Bring the same kind of questions you bring to open sessions and I can facilitate.

We also break up into pairs, into partnering partners and do the work that way, and it’s a very supportive environment for going a little deeper into the work and having a weekend [00:01:00] intensive. So if you’re interested, go to the work as meditation.com and go to the virtual retreats page.

Client: I feel like I should be playing more time, and it doesn’t make too much sense because I’m a starter. I play a fair amount of time, but for some reason there’s this attachment that I should be playing a lot more. Lord, I don’t know. More meaningful minutes or something like that. 

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around, and we use something called the work of Byron Katie, if you’re not familiar with this process.

It’s a way of identifying stressful thoughts in any situation, and then questioning the things that you’re thinking, questioning those actual thoughts running in your mind. And often when you do, you start to see the same situation very [00:02:00] differently. I’m Todd Smith and on the program today, someone who’s been doing the work for a while asks a question.

Very interesting question about. Going from question four, who would you be without the thought and then moving into the turnarounds and his feeling was he feels. Really more peaceful after question four. And then he felt like he needs to go back into the stress and was resisting that to do the turnaround.

So we’ll get into that in some detail in the first part of the open session recording. And then in the second part of the same open session recording the same participant does the work on the stressful thought. When playing basketball, I should be playing more time. And the nice thing about this is we get to listen as he does his work and applies what he was asking in the questioning just before that.

So you’ll get [00:03:00] the theory and then you’ll get the direct practice of it here in the same recording. After that, we’ll get into the newsletter that I’ve written which we’ll be following directly after. So let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie. And this is just a simple way to question what you think, something I’ve been enjoying for many years, and I invite you to listen and enjoy as well.

So here’s the recording of our latest weekly open session, and as always, I. Share the unedited recording so that you can experience this as it develops in real time with real

Client: Todd, I have a question. Sure. So basically I’m, when I’m doing the work, sometimes I am so in the situation and experiencing the situation that I get stuck. Not [00:04:00] stuck, but I would would like to get stuck in the feeling when I’m not like who I am without the thought itself. I experienced like, who would you be without the thought deeply that I don’t want to get out of it, and it’s like, why would I turn it around if that is gonna make me go back to the situation again?

So it’s I feel like, why should I keep going if I already feel like this is the place where I need to be at? In a way 

Todd: That’s a great question. It’s a great experience. Yes. I can relate to that too. Question four takes you somewhere it, it changes your experience of the situation already.

Because you’re, you’ve basically transcended the experience of that situation. You’ve gone beyond that situation, and now you’re seeing it in a completely in a different view. So this is it. [00:05:00] Why would I want to go onto a turnaround? It’s a very logical question, and of course you don’t have to go onto a turnaround, but here’s the value of a turnaround.

What the turnarounds do is they ground that experience. Back into the kind of everyday life again. So that experience of transcendence, that experience of who would you be without the thought is very beautiful. But it’s almost like you’re closed your eyes, you’re meditating. It’s like this free floating feeling.

And what the turnarounds do is they take that, that openness there, and then they look it, it’s like in asking to look for examples of how the opposite could be true. How the. The turnaround could be true, and it’s getting into the details of life. Again, it’s starting to say, okay, can you find that freedom that you just tasted in Question [00:06:00] four, can you find it in the mundane existence of the details of the situation?

And what happens is if you can find examples like that it really grounds that experience. So now you have the mundane, details of the situation and you have that experience of freedom coexisting together. And there’s this place of like integration that happens and it’s not just, I feel great and I feel free.

It’s like I feel great and free in the boundaries of that particular detailed kind of situation. And when I find those examples, they become like a reference point for me. Like my mind can remember those. They just, I found them. And they carry those with me. And so they become like the little reminders of that question for experience so that I can access it anytime I can be involved in this kind of situation in the future, [00:07:00] and I’m dealing with the situation directly, but I’m not overwhelmed with it.

I still have a connection to that place of freedom. So the turnarounds are for integration. It’s just like we were talking about earlier before this session how you can live alone and it’s so easy and you can really enjoy living alone. But there’s something important about living with people too, or being around people because of the challenges they bring.

That makes, it forces you to integrate that that being with yourself, with being with others. So the turnarounds do the same thing. They integrate that. Awareness of freedom, the awareness that the statement, who would I be without the thought into the particulars of life? And that can be very helpful.

Client: Thank you. I appreciate it. And I wanna do a follow up question on that one. And it’s about the turnaround specifically. Like in your [00:08:00] experience, is it better to come to the turnarounds with the feeling. Like the, having the feeling alive of how would you be without the thought on, or when you are believing that thought?

Because I noticed there’s like a difference between those, but I can’t quite figure out like what should be your mind heading towards or like focusing on when doing that and you’re actually experiencing it. 

Todd: A good question. I’m not sure I even know the answer or if there is an answer but say a little more.

What is your experience with if you’re coming at it from, who would you be without the thought versus coming at it with when you’re believing the thought? So the 

Client: difference I feel is like when I’m believing the thought. Everything is fresh. It is very emotional. Like I can feel it like if it’s happening right now, even though it happened I don’t know, two years ago or [00:09:00] whatever the time could be.

But then when I jump into the, who would you be without the thought, like all that emotion goes away because I’m like, I’m set to understand like what is exactly going on. When I move from there to the turnarounds, like if I go back to the initial point when I’m believing the thought, I feel like I’m going backwards in a way instead of keep moving forward when I’m not, without the thought.

Just okay. Like leaving that experience and looking at it from that perspective, not ha not having those emotions alive and all that kind of stuff. It’s it feels different than when I go backwards and I feel the emotions of believing the thought and then doing the turnarounds.

I dunno if I’m, I make myself clear with that. It’s a little bit weird, but that’s

Todd: feel. Yeah. I think I follow you. For me the purpose of the [00:10:00] questions one through four are. To just loosen my attachment to that belief a little bit. So I go through these questions, is it true? Can I absolutely know it’s true?

And I start sometimes finding that it’s not even true. So something starts to loosen there. And then how do I react? I see when an effect it has on me. And then who would I be without the thought? I see how much freer I would be, and I’m finding a little more looseness. To this idea, this thought that I’m questioning, and then all that is building up to the turnaround, which is when I’m in a looser, hold on that thought.

I can then start to turn it around and look and see if other sides of it are true or if something is truer or if there’s two things. Both true. I can look at it because I have a flexibility there. If I just, if I don’t go through the four questions and I’m just in that emotional place, [00:11:00] I’m holding the thought like this.

And so with that tight grip, I try to turn it around and it’s oh, I’m, I can’t turn it around because it’s so tight. I’m so attached to it. I’m so stuck there. And this is the problem where sometimes people will just say, take a stressful thought and just say, Hey, turn it around. It doesn’t work so well because it’s just turn it around.

What do you mean? I’m gripping this from my life and I can’t turn it around? It’s, or if I try to, I hurt myself with it but the questions soften the attachment to the thought so that I can start to play with it and I can start to turn it around. But. When you like, that’s a process that you go through.

Question 1, 2, 3, 4. It’s like a gradual loosening of attachment that’s happening. You don’t have to go back and get reattached to where you were in the beginning. Then [00:12:00] again, you’re gonna be having trouble to turn it around, right? You’re stuck again. So allow that softening to happen. Those four questions there are opening up my attachment.

I’m becoming less attached. Take the results of those questions, that feeling of more openness, and then step into the turnaround or and explore it in that open place. Don’t have to go back and shut myself down. Now I. One thing that you would, what I do like to encourage you to do is to take the hold the situation.

The situation is the same, but the situation was there, even in question four that was still there. Who would you be without the thought in that situation? So turn it around. Can you find examples? How that turnaround is as true in that situation. So the situation holds you all the way through, but in the beginning, the situation was super stressful.

As you go through the [00:13:00] questions, it becomes less stressful, and as you keep going into, the turnarounds can become even less stressful. It can just be completely not stressful. So that’s the progression. It’s not like you have to go back into stress. You just hold this, hold the situation but take the benefit of the opening that’s happened as you’ve gone, as you’ve gone through the four questions and started to loosen the attachment of it.

Client: Thank you. I really appreciate it. ’cause I was feeling. If I go through the turnarounds without the attachment to the emotion, I feel like I wasn’t doing it right in a way. Because oh, I don’t see it makes too much sense anymore because I’m not attached to it, so I need to go back and hold it so I can feel like, oh, I’m doing the turnarounds the right way.

That’s kind what I was trying. 

Todd: Yeah. No you’re doing it. You’re doing it the right way. Like the turnarounds. [00:14:00] Are destroying that concept and that maybe that this concept is already almost destroyed. From question four or from question three or question two or question one, it can, it’s slowly getting unraveled through these questions and that Now you’re getting to the turnarounds, you’re doing the final blows.

You’re like, okay, boom, that’s out and that’s out and this negates that and this is evidence against this. And you start to. Nail, put the nails in the coffin, completely finished the story and then ship it out. It’s done. It is not always that cut and dried. Obviously. Sometimes you may need to work something many times, but that’s what the turnarounds there for.

That’s what I mean by integration. They’re like, they’re finishing the job. Like you started to loosen the thing. Now you actually finish. Finish it, and you don’t have to go back into the stress to do that. You don’t have to go and get all stressed again to do the turnarounds. In fact, it’s hard to do the turnarounds when you’re stressed.

So [00:15:00] just see what you find. You’re already open. Okay. How could it be true that the exact opposite is truer 

Client: than what you were thinking before? Yeah.

All right, so any more questions or anyone wanna do the work?

I would like to do the work if we have time. Sure. 

Todd: Let’s do it.

So what 

Client: would you like to work on? So the situation is on my basketball team, we had a game last week, last weekend, actually, on Saturday. And I have a stressful thought when I was in the middle of a game that I feel like I should be playing [00:16:00] more time and it doesn’t make too much sense because I’m a starter.

I play a fair amount of time, but for some reason there’s this attachment that I should be playing a lot more, or I don’t know, more meaningful minutes or something like that along. Those lines. But I nailed it down to I should be playing more. 

Yeah. 

Todd: So it doesn’t matter, whether it makes sense or not.

That feeling is I should be playing more time. So that’s what I trust when doing the work. So let’s do it. You should be playing more time and be there in the minute, in the game. This is when it came up. So be there. Is it true you should be playing more time?

Yes. And can you absolutely know it’s true. We should be playing more time.[00:17:00] 

Client: Yes. To me that’s a yes. Okay, 

Todd: so how do you react? What happens when you think you should be playing more time and they’re not giving 

Client: you more time? I.

I shot down. I don’t wanna play anymore. It’s like I just wanna leave and don’t come back. In a way, I feel like right now in my situation, I’m sitting on the bench just like watching the game and I just, I. I kinda separate myself from it and I’m somewhere else, like I give up and I just don’t wanna try anymore.

Just wanna leave. And yeah, if I would stand up and leave, [00:18:00] that would be okay. That kind of feels like what my mind is doing anyway. I feel tension. I feel I even got sweaty, my hands got sweaty just thinking about it. Yeah, I get sweaty and I was like, in my mind, I’m like trying to figure it out. Trying to figure out why I’m not playing more minutes and why I’m not there.

If I could be helping the team more, if I was for me, I should be there because I’m not tired. I just can’t, I just could be there playing more minutes I can’t figure out the way. I’m trying to think of the reason why, but I can’t find it at all. It’s like I’m stuck in a loop just trying to, asking the question myself many times and there’s just no answer for it at all.

It’s just, and I can seem to get out of it. It’s okay, I’ll just give up. Like I don’t wanna play [00:19:00] anymore. Yeah. And that’s how my body reacts when. I, when I’m thinking about it, is oh, my body just shut down too. It’s like I’m not going as aggressive anymore. I’m like, I’m not even shooting.

If I wanted to make the, make the shot in a way, which is weird it’s if I almost don’t wanna shoot it, it is like. I’ll shoot it because I have to and I’m open or something, but not because I really want to do it anymore. So it’s like physically I’m gone too. Like I can see how my body relaxes and it’s not in game mode anymore.

It’s gone

Todd: private perfectly. All the reaction that happens when you think I should be playing more time. Yeah. So who would you be without the thought I should be playing more time 

Client: in the middle of [00:20:00] that game? Who would you be?

Without the thought, I’m sitting in the bench.

Not trying to be the coach in a way,

just like staying out of his business and just like focus on the game and seeing what’s going on, what plays are being run,

what I could do if I get in, what I could [00:21:00] learn.

And looking at myself more like going back to me in that situation and not,

and seeing like what things I could do to improve, not my gameplay, but the team, but on what I’m doing, I. Instead of what everybody’s doing, including the coach, because they’re not letting me play. So I’m like,

yeah, it’s weird. And in a way I just like just watching them play and I have good seats ’cause I’m like right next to the court

Just seeing what’s going on in the court and like just being there, not even waiting for me to get in without the thought. I’m just there. That’s it. [00:22:00] Like my mind is clear.

It’s almost like I’m not thinking, I’m just being there.

I. It’s an interesting feeling. Yeah. 

Todd: So that’s a little bit of comparison and contrast with the thought. Without the thought. And you can see by that what a difference that thought makes. I should be playing more time. Big difference. 

Client: Big difference. I can feel it in my body. I’m relaxed now. It’s like when I was talking about the thought, like I could feel the tension and I’m sweaty and I could feel like now I’m just there.

If I was on the bench, just like watching the game with the probably the best seats. Yeah, that’s 

Todd: [00:23:00] exactly. This is. This is the effect of the thought. That’s what we’ve just seen. And as you’ve experienced it and this is just what we were talking about, like there’s a loosening of the attachment to that idea, because you can see how stressful it is to think it, and without it.

It would be less stressful. So there’s a more openness there. And with that openness, let’s go into the turnarounds and see if we can find anything there. So I should be playing more time. What would a turnaround be? First obvious one would be I 

Client: shouldn’t be playing more time. Okay. 

Todd: So how could that be? Is there any examples how that could be true?

Client: First one. I see. Like it’s the kind of like the obvious one, because that’s the reality that I’m not, I’m playing the minutes I’m playing. And the reality is not, I’m not playing more than that. So yeah, 

Todd: you can argue with it all day long, but that’s how many minutes [00:24:00] you’re gonna play, however many you’re playing.

Yeah. 

Client: That’s the reality 

Todd: in 

Client: that. The other one is. I shouldn’t be playing more minutes because also the reality is that I’m playing a lot of minutes.

Yeah. So that’s a contradiction with the initial thought. But it’s true. It’s if I don’t put myself into with the ego thinking that I should be playing more, I can realize that I’m actually playing a lot of minutes. It’s not that I’m not playing. Or I’m playing a very few minutes.

I’m actually a starter so that tells you a little bit that I’m playing. Yeah, I’m playing a lot of minutes.

Todd: Yeah, it’s just the mind always wants more, right? I want to play more time. I’m a valuable player. I should be in there more. But in reality, if you look at it objectively, you’re playing quite a lot, 

Client: right?

The [00:25:00] other one I see is that I shouldn’t be playing more minutes because everybody needs to play and it’s actually a good thing for the team to have all the plays that don’t play as much to get minutes here and there too. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Client: Because as part of a team that’s gonna help us on the long run anyway. 

Todd: Yeah, exactly.

Share the responsibility of. Playing. Of winning. Of learning. Yeah. From that point of view. That’s an interesting one. It’s a gift you’re giving, even though you’re not, you don’t control it Exactly. But you could see it as something you’re giving time for others to play and that builds the team.

Client: Wow. That makes a lot of sense too, because that usually happens. When we start playing really well and we take an advantage on the game that we [00:26:00] just sit on the bench and let the other players get their presence know in the court and try to make points and all that stuff. And then if everything goes south, we go back to the court again and try to get the lead again and all that.

Yeah, I never looked at it that way. That’s a really good one.

Todd: So from that point of view, you shouldn’t be playing more. There’s right, there’s a time for it, but it’s not right now.

How is it good for you that you don’t play more? Is there any advantage for you?

Client: Advantages for me. I’m not playing more. There are less chances of me getting hurt while playing. So that’s a good advantage. 

Todd: Good point.

Especially if you play a lot of in high intensity, then that’s when injuries [00:27:00] can happen. So yeah, there’s a balance in not playing too much. 

Client: And I get to study the game in a way because like we have new people coming to the team that I don’t know how they play, how they move on the court or any of that. So that kind of gives me the chance of looking at how they play and how they move on the court. So when I’m with them. I already know what their position is gonna be and how they like to move that’s a good one.

That’s an advantage too. 

Todd: That’s cool. Yeah. With that information, you can start building a team. You can start knowing how to, when to pass to them, when not to how, where they’re going to be. There’s, you can learn a lot watching them play. Yeah.

I shouldn’t be playing more time. [00:28:00] These are all examples. We’ve probably found five or six examples and there may be even more. I shouldn’t be playing more time, so I don’t know if there’s any other turnaround, but let’s just take a look. I should be playing more time.

Client: One could be my ego shouldn’t be playing more time.

Yeah, because that’s, I feel like that’s what it comes down to. Like it shouldn’t, because I know the body feels great and I know it wants all the minutes it can get. That’s not good either. If it plays all the time, if you play all the time, that’s not good for any team. Nobody plays the whole game.

Not even in the NBA, like with the best players in the world or anything. Like that’s just doesn’t happen. 

Todd: Yeah. So [00:29:00] yeah, it’s a team sport. It’s a team sport. Yeah. 

Client: So it’s just like the ego wants to be there and it shouldn’t. 

Todd: Yeah. So it even this is, can be another example of that first turnaround.

I shouldn’t be playing more time because that just builds up the ego maybe too much. It’s good to have some ego, but maybe it’s built too much and then maybe I have to just find the balance in there where it’s not too high, not too low. Yeah. 

Client: That makes a lot of sense. ’cause there’s like a weird comparison that goes on with you regardless of how many minutes you play. It’s oh, I played more than this player. I should play more than that. And that’s the ego. Just oh, I should be playing more than this ’cause I play better.

Or I should play. That’s right. I run faster or something like that. Exactly.

Todd: This whole thing, this whole statement is really the ego talking, right? I should be playing more [00:30:00] time ’cause I am great. I’m better than this and that way I can do this. That it’s it’s just trying to be, it’s just trying to be. It’s comparison. And trying to be better than the others. Instead of being a team, which is, okay, I’ll play my part, you play yours, and the feeling is totally different.

Client: And your part changes depending on the pieces that you have around you. You don’t have the same role every single time. 

Huh. 

Todd: Yeah. Like you said, new players are coming in, like teams changing a little bit, so your role, you might’ve been used to one way, then it has to change a little bit. And adapt.

And adapt. Yeah. That’s being, that’s playing on a team, right?

Client: That’s a good one. The ego is attached to those minutes. That was used to, [00:31:00] or playing the whole game, even though I finished up like super tired, but the ego doesn’t care. You got the full game. I’m great. I can’t walk anymore, but I got the full game.

Okay. Oh, look here. 

Todd: You’re playing basketball but in this situation, you’re getting like training on the ego at the same, like that’s pretty cool. Physical training and ego balancing at the same time. 

Client: Trying to make the eagle. Come down to Earth. Yeah. Look at reality. 

Todd: Exactly. Yeah. So good.

And that’s a more fun way to play in the end because [00:32:00] then sometimes I don’t have to worry if sometimes I get more time or sometimes I make more points. Sometimes I do run faster. I don’t have to worry about that comparison and I’m just enjoying. Playing. ’cause I like to play the game and I like to be part of the team and I like to learn and I like all of that.

It’s becomes like multidimensional, not just did, was I the best? Did I have the most time, did I do the most points like that?

So I shouldn’t be playing more time. Cool.

Thank you. Thank you. That was great.

If you would like to participate in open sessions, like the one we’ve just heard here, I. Then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the open sessions page. You can see the schedule of upcoming [00:33:00] sessions there. There’s one every week. You can check the time in your time zone, and you can sign up to be a participant, you have to sign a release form, but if you do that.

Then you’ll get the scheduling calendar and you can join in anytime you’d like to. And I also give a little bonus for people who participate. For every 10 open sessions that you participate in, I’ll give a $50 Canadian dollar coupon for anything that I offer on my website. So go to the work as meditation.com and then open session.

While you’re there check out the work 1 0 1. This is my in depth. Online course for really going deeply into the work and learning all the details of how to do it, getting a lot of practice. It’s a 45 lesson course, can take a couple months or even up to a year, and it’s something that you can work through on your own or with a trainer, and [00:34:00] so I encourage you to check that out.

It’s at the work as meditation.com, and then the work 1 0 1.

Next, I’m gonna read one of my newsletter articles called Needs Should I Honor them or question them.

On the one hand, this ground squirrel needs to eat, and I’m talking about a picture of a little ground squirrel with a peanut in his mouth that I took many years ago. So on the one hand, it needs to eat, and on the other hand, that’s not absolutely true. Should I honor them or question them? In the work of Byron Katie, we question everything and a common type of thought to question is a need.

I need him to agree with me. For example, questioning needs can open up a lot of room inside, [00:35:00] but there’s another way to look at needs behind each stressful experience is a need. Instead of questioning that need, it is also possible to think about how to fulfill that need. Instead, this will arrive at the same place, a place of peace.

When all my needs are fulfilled, I can rest. So what should I do if I’m stressed? Just looking for the need beneath? The stress can be helpful by itself when I find it. I may know exactly what to do to fulfill it. It may take courage, but if I can ask for what I want or take action in some way, I may be able to create a situation where my needs are fulfilled.

This is called taking care of myself. If I need more sleep, how can I give that to myself? If I need better food, how can I create that for myself? If I [00:36:00] need some more money, how can I earn it? These questions allow me to honor the needs that I have and actively work towards fulfilling them. The alternative is to pretend that I don’t need what I need and take no action and continue suffering unnecessarily.

And then of course, I can become angry or depressed, or often passive aggressive. It feels much better to own what it is that I need and to go after it. But on the other hand, it’s good to question what I need. If I only focus on fulfilling my needs without questioning those needs, I may become a slave to my needs and I can end up becoming just as angry or depressed, or maybe even actively aggressive when I’m unable to fulfill those needs.

My attachment to fulfilling those needs can be a big cause of stress. So while it is true that fulfilling my needs [00:37:00] reduces stress, being attached to fulfilling my needs when I can’t fulfill them, increases stress. What a delicate dance, should I be less attached or more attached to fulfilling my needs?

The answer for me lies in finding the balance, the sweet spot between these two opposites. I like to do both. I like to question my needs and try to fulfill them. This weird kind of action with non-attachment creates a perfect blend of freedom for me. It is the best of both worlds. By honoring my needs, I’m able to do what I can to fulfill them, and by questioning my needs, I’m able to hold my needs loosely, even as I try to fulfill them.

This feels like a graceful kind of dance where I’m happy either way. If I get what I want, great. If I don’t, no problem. It also [00:38:00] frees up the creative mind to fulfill those needs in unusual and unexpected ways. I love how the questioned mind runs forward without hesitation to fulfill what it wants while remaining free from the need to actually achieve what it wants.

One more place for inquiry. I literally question, need statements. When I do the work, I need him to agree with me. Is it true? And I turn them around and find examples of why I don’t need him to agree with me. This is very freeing, but I also use the work in another way that honors the need directly. I question any thought that would stop me from doing what it takes to fulfill the need.

This addresses any negative attachment, not taking action, and it can be equally freeing when there is neither negative attachment. I can’t do it [00:39:00] nor positive attachment. I need it. There is freedom on all sides. This is a place where I can live and enjoy and expand and grow and be content with whatever I’m able to do.

Find your own balance. Just because you question something doesn’t mean you have to abandon the is. The work only removes the attachment part. Learn how to question this attachment part and find your own sense of balance. A great way to gain experience with this process is to take the work 1 0 1 course, and we support you there to find your own internal balance.

And here’s a quote from Byron Katie from her book, A Thousand Names for Joy. I took a drink of water one day and what? And it went down, what people call the wrong pipe. That is, it went down the right pipe, even though people say it’s wrong. I [00:40:00] was breathing water, not air, and because I didn’t believe the story that it was supposed to be air, there was no problem because I didn’t have the concept.

I need to breathe. I was a fish for a moment or two. The water went down, then it came up. It was very gentle as if my lungs were being rinsed, but if I had believed the concept, I need to breathe. It could have been stressful.