A Clear Analogy for Presenting The Work of Byron Katie—with a Peaceful HSP Heart

Todd: [00:00:00] By the end of this episode, you’ll discover my favorite analogy for understanding the work of Byron Katie. One that brings instant clarity to a process that can sometimes feel abstract or elusive.

Welcome to Stress Management for Highly Sensitive People. A podcast helping HSPs avoid overwhelm. Eliminate stress and find true inner freedom. I’m your host, Todd Smith, a facilitator of the work of Byron Katie, A way to question and reduce stressful thoughts, and you guessed it. I’m a highly sensitive person myself.

In this episode, you’ll discover a clear and powerful analogy. That instantly reveals what the work is and why it matters. How one client found unexpected peace while preparing for a big presentation and the [00:01:00] deeper issues that come to light and gain clarity when you explore a simple moment of nervousness and self-judgment.

Today is another addition of open session Wednesdays. You bring your questions and stressful situations, and I facilitate you in the simple, powerful process of the work of Byron Katie. As always, I share the unedited recording so you can experience the open session just as we did.

Client: I suppose I have a question, and it could be also a thought to take to inquiry.

Um, you know that I’m preparing for a Zoom presentation tonight, um, on the work to people who may never have heard of it before, and.

I find myself a little overwhelmed at all the different possible ways to explain the work, which doesn’t [00:02:00] need a whole lot of explanation. I mean, I think simple is better. Um, but there’s, my mind kind of just keeps going in circles. Like there’s so many different ways that I could talk about this and. Of course I’ve heard countless ways, um, that it’s described.

So I don’t know. I guess, um, I’m curious, of course you have lots and lots of practice of describing the work and, um,

I don’t know, do you have any, um, advice from your experience or sort of guidelines that you think about when presenting to people who are completely unfamiliar? With the work?

Todd: Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, the work is a, it’s a funny thing. It’s hard to put your finger on what it actually is. In a way, it’s these four questions and [00:03:00] turnarounds, and it’s a way of, it’s questioning your thoughts and, and experiencing something different.

But, um, but what is it? What is it? Um, and one of the things I like to do is to use an analogy. Um, for me, I love the analogy of the, the string and the snake. The famous analogy from ancient India, where, uh, you, you happen across a. Um, what you think is a snake and you’re, you freak out and you, your heart starts pounding and you run and scream and, you know, call everybody there and, and make a big deal out of it.

And then when you look closely at it, um, it’s just a rope, you know, or just a string and, and. Once you see the reality of what it actually is, it’s not so scary, uh, anymore. It’s just like you can laugh about it actually, because [00:04:00] oh my God, I was scared for nothing. It was just a, a rope. And, um, and so that analogy, you can play with it in different ways, but.

I love that analogy because it just shows you how our story of reality is what scares us. Not always the reality itself. You know, sometimes there are some scary things in reality also, but, uh, by and large, a lot of the, the, the. The stress and, um, fear and emotion that we experience is due to our minds making it bigger than it is or making it, uh, scarier than it is.

And what the work does is it cuts through that and says, let’s just look at reality itself and see what’s actually there. And maybe it is a snake. Okay, great. Then I’ll. Calmly step away from the snake, but maybe it’s just a rope [00:05:00] and, uh, I just don’t need to be, uh, worried about it. But in either case, there’s a, there’s a kind of calmness that comes in, um, when you look objectively at things.

And that’s the way I see the work as a way of, I often say a way of going back and taking a second look. And, um, I find that to be just so helpful when emotions become strong and, and so emotions are what bring us into the work. And when, uh, they’re strong, chances are they’re stronger than they actually, you know, like I’m seeing a picture that’s not, uh.

That, that’s larger than life in my mind, or scarier than, than it is in my mind. So yeah, I mean, like you said, there’s a million ways to kind of talk about what the work is. Um, it certainly is valuable to, to, um. Yeah, I don’t know. There’s a lot of ways you can do it, but I [00:06:00] love analogies ’cause they just kind of simplify it and give it a, a simple reference point and then go in and actually do a little bit of the work and see what it looks like in real life and that can fill in the gaps.

Client: Yeah. Yep. That’s great. I am, I’m glad that you reminded me of that little story because I remember hearing it from Katie and it was so profound like. I, it’s funny that I haven’t thought of it in quite a while because I used to think of that all the time that that’s what I’m doing is discovering a rope and, um, yeah.

That’s that’s perfect. Thanks for that jogging my memory.

Todd: Yeah, you’re welcome. Yeah, it’s a great, great analogy. I heard about it long before Byron Katie, just from studies in of Eastern philosophy, and it was just like, wow, this is a cool idea. You know, like that you can actually have your heart beating faster [00:07:00] over nothing over a story, and what the work does is cut through the story so that you don’t have to have that experience necessarily.

Yeah,

Client: yeah. It’s so relatable. I’ve definitely done that. With snakes or, you know, lots of little things. Yeah. Um,

Todd: and the. And always the doubt is, okay, well what if it is a real snake? Right? And like, and people are like, well, is this just gonna make you blind? And kind of say, oh, well, you know, I’m sure it’s just a rope and then you actually get bitten.

Like that is, uh, that’s a really valid concern. And, uh, the way I think of that is that. Just going back and having a second look, which is what I consider inquiry to be, or the work to be, is going to give you an accurate picture, a more accurate picture of what’s actually there. And if it is a real one, then um, you’ll take appropriate action.

But it doesn’t have to be a freaked out prop, uh, appropriate action. It just be okay. Step [00:08:00] away from the snake.

Client: Yeah. Thank you.

Todd: Mm-hmm. My pleasure. And good luck with your presentation tonight.

Client: Thanks. Yeah. I still, you know, I’ve been sitting in the work with it the last few days and I’ll sort of just get clear and get free and lighthearted about it.

And then just lots of little fears creep back in. Like if there’s, if there’s time, if no one else has something, I could just work a thought like, um, I won’t explain it. Well, you know.

Todd: Yeah, sounds really relatable. Yeah, so if you want, I don’t know if there’s anyone else, but if not, um, I’m happy to do the work with you.

Client: Great, thank you.

Todd: Okay, so again, this is kind of a future situation, so, um, it’s, it’s a little more nebulous to work, but it [00:09:00] also can work really well. Um. Just imagine yourself in front of those people. Mm-hmm. I think you said mm-hmm. It was on Zoom. Um, and, and you’re, you’re presenting, right? So

you won’t explain it well. Is it true?

Client: Yes. Yeah,

Todd: that’s the fear. So can you absolutely know it’s true. You won’t explain it well,

Client: no.

Todd: [00:10:00] And how do you react? What happens when you think that you won’t explain it well and you’re imagining or getting ready for this presentation?

Client: I see these images, me on Zoom, people looking kind of blank or non-responsive or then they maybe have a question that, um, seems like, oh, they really didn’t. Get at all what I was saying or they’ve misinterpreted and I, I see myself kind of trying to go back or fill in the gaps or try it a different way, but then I, I can feel the inner experience of, oh, shoot, now I’m talking too much now I’ve gone down a rabbit hole.

I should have kept it simple. I should have, you know, like a. I can, I can feel the [00:11:00] self-judgment happening as I try to explain and become more,

like more muddled or confused feeling.

I can feel like kind of right here in my chest and throat, just this feeling of, well, I don’t know, some kind of energy that feels like, oh God, I just can’t wait for this to be over. Or, um, like, I’ve made a mess of this. Actually, I remember, I remember this feeling years ago when I. Hmm. I did a radio interview when I was in my twenties and I had been doing piece work in the Middle East and I came back and was interviewed for local radio.

And the very first question, I just didn’t know how to field, and I [00:12:00] started. Kind of rambling on and on, and it was a little too autobiographical and I didn’t know where to stop, and the interviewer was looking down. He wasn’t even looking at me, and I just couldn’t gauge at all how, how my answer was coming across.

Is this, is this understandable? Is anyone getting this? And of course, I’m speaking to these unseen people and I. Yeah, I’m remembering that feeling of just like, oh God, I started off on the wrong foot here and

I was already imagining my in-laws listening to it and judging it, which I think they were really unimpressed ’cause they didn’t like our work anyway. And God, I just remember feeling.

This feeling like, why didn’t I keep my mouth shut? I’m just regretting and I am, I’ve kind, [00:13:00] I feel like I’ve humiliated myself. I’ve made myself look unintelligent. I’m not clear and decisive and um, I’m way too emotional. All these, like, these stories of me are there.

Yeah. So when I imagine this, when I have this thought, I just imagine, oh, this is just gonna happen again. How it’s gone before. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. So interesting that you connected that. Um, ’cause the future fears are often based in past. Experiences past stress. Um, so that’s part of how you react is you, you, you connect all of that and, and it charges up the [00:14:00] emotion. Um, because I’ve been there before.

Client: Yeah. It feels inevitable. Like. No matter how prepared I am or how clear I seem, or how everybody says, like, you’ll be great.

Like, I know I’m going to get in there. And then there’ll be some moment where it just kind of goes sideways and I don’t know how to recover. And yeah, just it feels like I’m just headed for that experience again.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And how does that affect you now as you’re thinking about doing the presentation?

I.

Client: I just keep feeling this, like I’ll be clear for a little bit and then I just feel, um, gosh, that same, just like I’m. Slipping into this fear. And um, of course with that comes all this self-judgment too. Like this isn’t hard. This is something you’ve been doing for a decade now. Like you could, you can [00:15:00] explain this.

Uh, plenty of people do this. People learn the work and then they open their business like six months later and they. Like offering the work to people. It’s not hard. But, um, so I, what also follows is just all this self-judgment that I’m not more put together that judgment that I have any of this fear at all anyway coming up.

Like that’s proof that I am not the person to do this or that the work doesn’t really work for me. Because look, I still get hung up on the littlest things.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. That whole loop of self-judgment. Yeah. God,

Client: it’s so strong in me that I keep trying to feel like I keep seeing it and stepping out of it, and it just is really strong.

Like it doesn’t take anything to trigger that. That’s what it feels like.

Todd: Yeah. [00:16:00] So who would you be without the thought? Just without the thought? The thought that you won’t explain it Well,

Client: when I don’t have the thought, I feel a lot lighter in my whole sort of physical being.

I feel excited in a way. Like I’m, I feel I see myself sort of like leaning in when I’m on Zoom. Like, um, like when you wanna share something and you just get closer to the person, like I see myself, um, even in that, even in a situation where somebody says, okay, so it’s like this or whatever, and they. Kind of [00:17:00] misrepresented, or I can see like, oh, there’s been some misunderstanding.

’cause that’s not exactly, you know, whatever. So I’m responding to that moment and, um, without the thought, I see myself.

I sort of like pause to listen and consider, but I don’t get stuck on anything. I can feel that there’s like half a dozen good responses in me, and all I have to do is pick one. It doesn’t even matter which one, like I, I know this process. From my own experience, like just myriad ways. I know how it can feel.

I know. I, I’m just ready to respond. And it’s not because I’m an expert at all. It’s just, um, like this is a road I’ve been walking on and I can, I can tell you what it’s like or I can tell you what [00:18:00] I’ve learned along the way. I can tell you like things that have tripped me up, like I just have. I have experience to speak from, or I’ve read a lot of Katie, I’ve listened to a lot of Katie, I’ve, um, gained so much from being in Inquiry Circle.

Like I just, I have a lot of things I could pass on from people like you or who, who have been on the path longer than me. Like, it’s not even just what I have available. It’s like.

I’ve been gifted to,

to hear and receive so much wisdom and that’s all somehow available in me to pass on in a moment.

Todd: Yeah, and it’s funny how the thought, I won’t explain it. Well, just gets in the way [00:19:00] of that.

Client: Yeah. Yeah, without the thought, it’s almost like I see it in my mind, but it’s, it’s almost like I am not there. The space that would be me is kind of like just this open window or something. Just like,

Todd: yeah.

Client: I mean, I’ll be physically there, but I, I energetically see it more like, oh, I’m just drawing from this storehouse of wisdom.

That I’ve been witness to and finding like, oh, what serves, and I can try it this way, or I can try it that way, and I can check in with the person. Does that make sense? Or you know, and, and I can just keep offering and ultimately if it doesn’t make sense, that’s okay too. ’cause sometimes my mind’s just not open to receive things either.

And that’s an okay experience. Like I can also just affirm, if you don’t understand this now, that is just fine. You don’t need to, if you don’t get it, it’s not for you right now. You know, like I, [00:20:00] I can feel the.

How there’s no stakes about any of it. Like there’s, there’s no risk. You know, to me not explaining or someone not understanding, like it’s just not really possible that that’s a problem.

Todd: That’s really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So different, so. So let’s try turning it around. I won’t explain it. Well, what would an opposite be? Let’s explore that.

Client: I will explain it Well.

Todd: Okay. How could that be as true or truer?

Client: I often have the experience of, um, feeling unclear in myself. You know, usually it’s, I’m talking to a friend.

And I check in like, does this make any sense? I, I don’t feel like I, this is clear. I, that [00:21:00] just came out like a jumble and I think a hundred percent of the time someone reflects back to me. That made total sense. Yeah, that was, I perfectly understood that. Like people just don’t seem to say like, yeah, that was, what was that?

That was a mess. That just doesn’t happen. So this thought that I won’t explain it well, seems to only be true for me. You know, even if somebody else still has questions, it, um, it doesn’t seem like usually the fault is that I’m, that I can’t explain something. I actually think I’m a kind of good explainer at times.

Like, I like to think about how things fit together or make sense, or what people need to know in storytelling or something like, I think I’m okay at that.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Client: So I think I will explain it. Well,

Todd: who knew I’ll,

Client: yeah. [00:22:00]

Todd: But it’s just cool to see this balanced perspective. It’s like, um, it’s as possible and maybe even more possible that you will explain it.

Well then you won’t explain it well. Yeah. Um. And we, it’s, it’s the story again, going back to that, what we’ve first talked about, like the, the snake in the rope, right. That there’s, it’s the story that I won’t explain it well, that makes me believe that I really won’t, um, when your experience actually, uh, kind of points to the opposite.

So it’s just, we don’t know what will happen, but the possibility that you will explain it, well, coming in now starts to balance this story and show something in a more, um, yeah, like less biased light. Yeah.

So what’s another turnaround? I won’t explain it Well.[00:23:00]

Client: Yeah, if that was one.

So it’s interesting. What do you, what do you see?

Todd: Maybe something like they won’t understand it well as opposed to, I won’t explain it well. Um, that it’s not fully my responsibility. Um,

Client: yeah. Yeah, that seems likely. I mean, often we just come to something with our preconceived notions, you know, and people might do that.

People might think, oh, it means this, or it means that, especially in a, you know, kind of eclectic spiritual community, people might already have practices or something. So like, they may, they might not fully get it. And honestly, the work is. It’s kind of an enigma that it’s so simple and really profound and it’s kind [00:24:00] of easy to miss that.

It’s easy to either think it’s really complicated and it’s an intellectual thing or, um, I don’t know. It’s just. It’s easy not to understand. Like, can I say that I really understand it, not, not fully, you know?

Todd: Right. Yeah.

Client: I’m often rediscovering it, you know, kind of on a regular basis too. Like, oh my gosh, that’s what a thought does.

Wow. Like, something I think I know is still, um, I still don’t understand it or misunderstand it. Plenty of time, so I guess it’s fine. It’s fine for it not to be understood. You know? That’s not on me and that’s not the goal even.[00:25:00]

Yeah. Again, I just come back to this like surrender of. The grand timing of the universe that, um, this isn’t like my moment to make something happen. This is just me showing up and whatever. Maybe seeds are planted or maybe people get just, they get just whatever they need, and maybe that’s the whole idea of the work.

Or maybe it’s just some side comment or something, you know.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: Yeah,

Todd: I like this turnaround ’cause it kind of brings in the other people, not just putting it all about myself. When I put it, when I’m presenting and it’s all about, I, I won’t explain it well or I need to do a good job, then that’s when I become nervous. That’s when I become, you know, just completely worried.

[00:26:00] Uh, but. There’s a lot going on. I’m just a part of this whole process and, and seeing that they may or may not get it is also, um, perfectly fine and normal. Then it takes some of the pressure off of. Me having to do a good job.

Client: Yeah. And in my mind, it, I can see it balance out this like this hyper focus that I’ve had on me and like, how am I gonna do this?

And is it gonna work and am I gonna be good? And really what this is, is just like I’m one person on a Zoom with who knows, 12 or 20 other people and, and. This is a meeting of all of us. You know, like I’m, I’m really just the one here to offer something and it’s not my show. You know, like the point is for them to try something Yeah.

And experience something and get to think about something. That’s [00:27:00] the whole point. It’s, it’s not about me doing it, you know?

Todd: Yeah, yeah. You know, and I was thinking about. Sometimes when we present things, we we’re presenting something that’s really important to us or something that’s really kind of, we’ve like a core practice or something that we believe in.

Or even, I was thinking of you with your radio station, like some good thing that you believed in, that you did like some piece work in the Middle East or something like, these are like personal. These are things we care about and if I’m thinking it’s about me. And, and, and almost in a way subtly getting validation or getting, uh, some extra, um, just like, uh, other people valuing what I value, which gives me a, a sense of confidence in a way.

Like, it, it can put this [00:28:00] pressure that they, I really need them to get it right. But what this turnaround does is says, wait a minute. Like, uh, they might not understand it. Well, and that’s okay because it’s may not just be what they need or what they’re interested in or anything like that. And it’s, it stops this, it sort of breaks this pressure to get, um, you know, reinforcement or get, um, support from others for something that I do that I value that is kind of core inside of myself.

Client: Yeah. Yeah. Right. There’s a lot of, I guess, love approval and appreciation, or maybe especially just kind of, um, acknowledgement or something that, that can feel like it’s adding, adding to my sense of, or my value as a person that mm-hmm.

Todd: Yeah. And that [00:29:00] puts a lot of pressure because now I need to really look good at this or be good at this in order to have that, uh, extra validation, if you will.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And without it, you know, like the turnaround is okay, well, they. They may just get whatever they get and that’s okay. Like they don’t need to, I don’t need to explain it well, kind of as a, maybe another kind of weird turnaround, but it’s just, it’s okay. I’m just here to present something and end of story.

Client: Right. Yeah. It’s funny that I have a goal in mind because I’ll probably never see these people again, like they’re not even in my home state necessarily. Like why do I have so much invested in what it means for them going forward or in their life or something. There’s no way I can even know anything about that.

Yeah.

Todd: [00:30:00] Yeah.

Client: I just present and then that’s, and then that’s all I’m here to do.

Todd: Right. Suddenly it starts getting really simple. It feels really free because I don’t have this big job to do anymore. I’m just, um, yeah. Showing up and, Hey, I’m here and blah, blah, blah. And, um, hope you have a great day. Yeah, right.

Bye.

Client: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Todd: That’s cool. Well, thank you for your work.

Client: Thank you, Todd.

Todd: In this episode, we looked at a clear and powerful analogy that I instant reveal instantly reveals what the work is and why it matters. And that’s my favorite analogy of the, the rope and the snake and how it shows you, how it’s the story in your mind that causes the chaos, the craziness, the the overwhelm.

And by questioning that [00:31:00] story. It can bring you back down to reality, which may still have issues, but it’s not, they’re usually not as bad or as, uh, crazy as when the mind makes a story. We then looked at how one client found unexpected peace while preparing for a big presentation, and we questioned the thought, uh, or she questioned the thought.

I won’t explain it. Well, just very literally what came out of her mind. That fear. And then we just took that in and brought it through the four questions and the turnarounds, and it was so cool to see that there’s another side to that. I might explain it Well, and then finally we looked at the deeper issues that come to light and gain clarity.

When you explore a simple moment of nervousness and self-judgment like this, and we saw that there were old experiences of being on a radio station and. Um, you know, just not keeping it together. And then the, [00:32:00] the desire for validation, uh, that was also there is natural in all of us. We start making it about us and trying to share our vulnerable and precious ideas.

And this is deep work. You know, this opens up something deep in us, and if we follow this thread, it can really be a place to explore deeply and to gain clarity. So that these kinds of situations don’t have to trip us up, but if they do, they’re there for a reason to show us that there’s still something in there that we can gain clarity around.

So thanks for listening. It’s great to be here with you. I look forward to more sessions with you. In the meantime, have a great rest of your day and we will see you next time.

Dreaming of a stress-free balanced life. Visit true inner freedom.com and complete the HSP stress survey. [00:33:00] Gain clarity on your stress triggers, and enjoy a free 15 minute inner freedom call designed to guide you towards lasting inner peace and fulfillment.