Beyond the Surface: The Meditative Depth of Question 2 in The Work of Byron Katie for the Highly Sensitive Person

Client: Well, I do have something I’d be happy to do the work on, [00:05:00] but um. I can’t wait to see if any other questions arise. I don’t know that I really have a question about, it’s just something that came up this morning.

Todd: Okay. Doesn’t sound like there’s anything pressing, so if you’d like to do the work, I’ll be happy to do that.

Client: All right. Um, so situation at my son’s school, and this is a kid who’s had some. Challenges to work through and has had some, um,

a couple other parents. Um,

well, the thought is about our school director and another parent. Hmm.

This parent, um. Her son and my son had an argument about three months [00:06:00] ago and my son threw the kids eraser across the room and that parent decided that her son will not speak to my child or be in a group with him or work with him. Um, and has maintained that. And it’s a little class of 15 kids who’ve been together since first grade.

So it’s difficult to, um, sort of exclude. My thought is around the school director that he should have convened a meeting with us. So with my husband and I and this other parent, which we requested a few months ago. Um,

and that other parent said she’s not ready. Um, the situation, I guess. Really is this morning I heard from another parent about some comments made in class. Her daughter was feeling bad for my son because, you know, it’s this little, [00:07:00] um, the way my son gets excluded because this other boy won’t speak to him.

So

I guess I just feel, um, I feel for some reason really nervous about using anyone’s name. So I just, no, don’t. He sh he should have convened a meeting with us all.

Todd: Yeah. Perfect. Okay, so, so is that true? He should have convened a meeting with you, with all of you?

Client: Yes.

Todd: And can you absolutely know it’s true. You should have convened a meeting with you all.[00:08:00]

Client: Gosh, SHA maybe I do have a question. Just when I sit here in question two, I I have, it was just kind of this, this argument in my mind. There’s a part of me that’s like, yes, absolutely. And another part that says, well, okay, that could have gone badly. So you don’t really know. But the feeling

is still with the Yes. [00:09:00] You know? And when this happens, there’s a part of me that. Thinks like, well, I know you can never actually know anything. I already know that. So sometimes I’ll just, with question two I, I can sometimes just brush past it because I’ll kind of feel this argument in my mind and I don’t always know how to really settle in it.

Sometimes I can, and sometimes I just kind of move past and figure out what, well, I’ll just sort it out in questions three and four, but since I’m here now, I just wonder if you have any. Advice or, um, experience? I, I guess I just wanna give question two its own space, or give me my own space within it.

’cause maybe there’s something I’m missing by brushing past.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. It’s easy to brush past question two. In fact, if you answer. [00:10:00] One as a no, you immediately skip question two and go on to question three. So it’s, it’s tempting even if you got a yes for question one to kind of brush by it. In fact, I’ve noticed that questions one and two, both can get brushed by quite quickly if, if you are doing the work a lot.

Um, but they are, they’re deep questions. They’re, they’re actually, there’s a lot to them and I. When you sit with it, I often find something very similar. Like there’s a part of me that’s saying yes, and there’s a part of me that’s saying, oh, it’s not really a big deal, and they’re both in there, so where do I find my answer?

This bait kind of happens and kind of a tug of war can happen inside, and that kind of is, I don’t know the purpose in a way of question. One and two is to get, put us in that uncomfortable [00:11:00] place of where we have to really think what is our truth? If we had to land on one thing, what would it be? And it sort of forces the issue.

Um, my analogy is often like a jury has to come to a conclusion of a guilty or not guilty. And there’s a lot that has to be discussed or considered, um, for that to, to come out. Um. The way that I tend to do it there, there isn’t a right way and I’m just gonna share my experience. Um, but the way I tend to do it is I tend to think of the part of me that is reactive, stressed, confused.

Kind of the one that came to the work saying, ah, he should have convened a meeting with us. You know that one. There’s a part in me that’s really into that. I think of that as being really [00:12:00] my client, if you will. It’s like that’s the one, the crying baby that is sitting in there that needs to do the work.

And so I’m really, I tend to ask that part of me. What do you see? Um, and unless it sees it differently, then I trust. If it’s still a yes, then I go with that. Um, but, um, so yeah, that, that tends to be, the reason I like that is because it stays really connected to me, still really connected to me emotionally.

It doesn’t go off into a more intellectual or rational, uh. Kind of side of me, which can sometimes feel detached from the, the feeling part, which is what brought me into this in the first place. So I tend to, I tend to do that. I tend to favor the, the stressed part of me, but I’m challenging it. I’m saying, Hey, I want you to be [00:13:00] honest with me.

I’m not pushing you to not be honest. I want you to. But I want you to look and really give, be as objective as you can, even though you’re a crying baby, you know, and say, okay, little one. Can you find any reason that makes this seem like it’s, can you, can you absolutely know that it’s true? Um, and. It may look around and its sphere of vision may be fairly small and it may say, I’ve looked everywhere where I see and I really don’t see anything.

So yeah, then I stick with a yes. But it may look around and in its sphere, however big or small it is. It may, it may kind of say, oh, well, I hate to say it, but actually. That’s not absolute. I really don’t absolutely know That’s true. And they, and you can feel it. And so that feels like it’s connected to, it’s the real, it’s the [00:14:00] real work being done, not just a shortcut to Oh, you can’t know anything’s true.

Um, which is an intellectual concept that this little one that’s feeling stress at the moment is not really an intimate connection with. Um, so for me, the, the, the. Importance of the work. If we think of it as a meditation, which is the way I think of it, is that it’s connected to my experience at every point, um, of that meditation.

So when I’m in question one or question two, I wanna stay as connected to my experience on an emotional level as I can. But I wanna stretch and see if there’s something I was missing. And if I see something great, I, I. That’s powerful actually. But if I don’t see something, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna try to force it into or skip over, um, my experience in [00:15:00] favor of a, of a concept or something that I know kind of intellectually.

Um,

Client: yeah. That’s perfect. That’s, that’s perfect. That’s exactly what I’m feeling is this. The stressed part of me is so insistent and like hates being brushed over.

Todd: Yeah. That, and that is what the work is for, for me, is to finally give the the stressed part of me. An opportunity to not be brushed over. It’s like finally it’s allowed to write a judge or neighbor worksheet.

It’s allowed to come up with stressful thoughts. It’s allowed to be heard. It’s allowed to be petty, it’s allowed to be angry. It’s just allowed to be completely stressed if that’s where it’s at, human. And so I wanna honor that at every step of that. The work [00:16:00] process, even though now I’m challenging it with the questions one through four and the turnarounds.

That’s a challenge to that stuck idea. But I wanna make sure that I, it keeps its feet on the ground the whole time. Otherwise, uh, it will stop trusting the process. It will say, oh, you gave me free carte blanche to, um, to. Say what my stressful thoughts are and to write uncensored what my stress was, but then you just made me brush over what I’m really seeing and just turn it around like, like, screw you.

I’m not gonna play this game. I’ll, I’ll just stop coming to this kind of setup because it doesn’t feel like I’m really being invited and heard and held and listened to. So, yeah.

Client: I’m a little, uh, perplexed by a incident that happened. [00:17:00] Uh uh. This last weekend, and it was not anything serious, but I just, uh, I don’t need to do the work on it. So when Analisa comes back, I’m okay to stop, but I just wanna get some feedback from you. Mm-hmm. Um, it’s, it’s a very simple situation. I was at the, uh, greenhouse, um, it was in the afternoon, so nobody else around and it.

My husband was there and the person that, uh, uh, would check us out, we were asking about, uh, some dogwood, uh, trees and stuff like that. And we started, uh, just kinda laughing, talking about different things. It was a very non-threatening situation. They were both very, you know, I was joining them and all of a sudden I kind of, um, uh, felt this rush of anxiety.

I mean, I was very, felt like I was in the moment. And, um. Present and I just thought, you know, what is happening? Why, why am I feeling so threatened? You know, I, I said everything, [00:18:00] I’m safe here. And, um, uh,

and I started withdrawing and just look watching ’em. And so I’m not sure how to go about, um, something, something happened, some kind of image, which I, um, there. Nothing clicked. Like they gave me a, um, their facial or the body language. Um, I’m just not sure where I, what I was experiencing that time and how to question that.

And I hope this isn’t too kind of woo woo complex, but.

Todd: Who knows. Yeah. It’s, uh, what we’re looking at is your experience, and that’s what I trust. Somehow you were sitting in this, standing in this situation, um, nothing threatening is going on, and for some reason you felt a rush of anxiety, so. That was your actual experience and we’ll, we [00:19:00] work backwards from there and we may or may not find the stressful thought, but um, something happened there and so it’s worth looking, uh, in that in any case.

So, um, I often think there are a couple places where I can get. Triggered from One is the actual situation, like the physical situation where you’re standing, who’s there, what they’re talking about, that kind of thing. Those can all, within that situation can be any little trigger, could, could pop, um, something.

And then the other is my internal, uh. Imagery. Um, and, and thoughts and memories and stuff that’s going on inside. So I may be standing talking about dogwood trees, but my mind is thinking about something else, something not related even, and it [00:20:00] just, I. Got some little flash of that and suddenly a rush of anxiety popped in.

Um, so that opens up the, the domain of where you can look for the stressful, uh, situation. It might be the physical, might be what they’re saying might be anything like that. Or it might be just what popped into your mind related to what they were saying or not related to what they were saying. And I don’t know that, but that’s where I start to look.

So. I don’t know if you, I think,

Client: um, this is bringing it back a little more. What I recall is that, you know, again, I, like I said, very safe environment. I mean, you’re at a, a greenhouse, um, which is such a nice, relaxing place and there we’re all laughing. And then I think I, it seems like I got this, um, thought.

I didn’t really see the thought, but I just kind of, it just happened so fast that I, um, I. [00:21:00] I noticed that I was laughing and being relaxed with him, and all of a sudden I just went, oh my God. And I mean, yeah. And I’m just almost like I was, didn’t know how to proceed because I caught myself in a unusual. I mean, um, I mean, and one part of me is cool because I was relaxed and I was having fun and I was conversing, and all of a sudden it’s almost like, uh, you know, some ego part came out and said, you know, warning, be careful.

Um,

uh, this isn’t safe. You know, I could be exposed or something, you know, I mean, it’s kind of a medley of that. So I’m not, um, so what, yeah, I wanna be able to look at that and see, ’cause it kind of disturbs me that, uh, um, something [00:22:00] so positive was happening. And I reacted this way.

Todd: That’s, that’s a very common experience really, is that, um, something positive’s happening and that can trigger me, um, strangely enough.

But the something inside was having some. Fear or some, some connection to the past. It may have been so subtle, so quick that it hard to even grasp consciously what was going on, but something you were starting to play with it. Like, I don’t know how to proceed. Be careful. Yeah. This isn’t safe. I could be exposed.

Yeah. So the, that’s the beginnings of it and it doesn’t have to be crystal clear to be able to work it. Um, but you could easily start with. With something like that, um, I don’t know how to proceed or This isn’t safe, or I could be exposed. Um, and you may find more, [00:23:00] but these kinds of thoughts connected to that feeling that you had.

Yeah. The feeling was that this rush of anxiety, if that, if one of these thoughts feels connected to that rush of anxiety feeling, then you’re in the ballpark. Even, you don’t even know what you’re gonna find when you begin to do the work on it. Um, so you can just start there, kind of half blind, but you’re on safe ground because you’re, you’re following the stressful experience and you’re connect.

You’ve found some thoughts that are at least vaguely connected to it. And then as you get into it, you, it may become more clear or it may just. You don’t know what you’ll find. Um, so that’s, this is exploration is really going into the unknown.

Client: Um, yeah, it almost feels like, you know, by doing the work, I’m, um, noticing some [00:24:00] positive changes, uh, how I interact with people.

And this almost feels like I was having a relaxed conversation and then all of a sudden. Uh, I, my, the old self woke up and go, you know?

Todd: Yeah. Like, don’t get too relaxed. Yeah. You’re exposed. Yeah.

Client: Yeah. It was,

Todd: it,

Client: it was odd. ’cause I almost, I know I, I could, it, I was in my body and I could see it happening.

It’s like, you know, and I just couldn’t turn back. I mean, I couldn’t turn it off and then we left. Yeah. You know, so it wasn’t like it was long, but I. Yeah, that’s great. I will look at that probably by, um, I might be exposed.

Todd: Mm-hmm. What’s the sense of exposed there for you? What is, what do you think that’s coming from?

If you can guess? What do you mean by that? I,[00:25:00]

Client: I don’t have a particular image, but I could just, um, um. I think I, uh, living with an not feeling safe around people. Uh, and maybe that goes back to my family environment of mm-hmm. Not knowing, um, what to be expected the unexpected could happen.

Todd: Yep, yep. Yeah,

exactly. So this could be, um, for example. If you’ve been, if, if that has been their whole life, I’m not safe around people. Some kind of anxiety around that based on family maybe. And then you start, you’ve been doing a lot of the work over months and years, uh, and there’s a certain relaxing that’s maybe happening a little bit, a little less of that.

And then. [00:26:00] Then the mind just remembers the old pattern. Oh yeah. I’m not safe around people. Yeah. And goes back to that anxiety and, and fears, and so it just means there’s another piece of that that’s still there. Right. I, I’ve been believing that I’m not safe around people, and I’ve started to move beyond that for various reasons, just through.

Through doing your work or through evolution, but then there’s still a piece there and it just showed itself. Oh, still there. And so you can go back as if it’s the first time you’ve ever done the work and say, okay, I’m not safe around people. You know? And is it true? And just see where you go. Yeah.

Client: Yeah.

Great.

Todd: Yeah, it’s cool. The, the amazing thing about the mind or the our, uh, whatever our, our. Our experience is that we, uh, we, it, it tracks all [00:27:00] that stuff. It tells you what’s left. It shows you what there’s, oh, you’ve done really amazingly, and there’s still a little piece here. So it just pops it right up, right when it’s ready, and then you can, you can go in and take the next step, and that’s how it gets all cleaned up.

Really cool.

Client: Yeah. ’cause it was like popped up out of nowhere. You know, I’m standing there all of a sudden just going, what is happening? I just remember cognitively thinking, okay, I’m safe here. You know, this is really a fun conversation and, um, it just, uh, it ha I experienced that, so I really like that.

Thank you Todd for, uh, working. Through. I will, I’m looking forward to doing a worksheet on this.

Todd: Yeah, that’s kind of cool and neat. Yeah. Welcome. If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and go to the open sessions page. There you can see the upcoming schedule [00:28:00] and you can sign up there.