Deepening Inquiry: Exploring Questions 1 and 2 in The Work of Byron Katie for Highly Sensitive People

Client: I have a question.

There’s been some times where in asking the first question, um, and even the second question, is it true? Um, maybe like the first time I could say, yes, it’s true, and then it’s like, can you absolutely know it’s true? Um, sometimes this happens where I, it’s like 90% still true and maybe 10% I could feel like a 10% no.

Um, and I’m just like. Like, I’ve heard Byron Katie say like, sit in it until it’s like you can, until it feels, I don’t remember her exact words, but my interpretation was like, I might sit in it for a couple of days until I get [00:06:00] to my yes or no. Well, if I sit, sit in it for a couple of days, I this, it’s just gonna go away and I’ll never come back.

Maybe, I don’t know. So I kind of wanted to go a little bit deeper into that spot where something isn’t a clear yes or no and there’s like a genuine, I don’t know, or it’s like I mentioned 90 10, um, ratio, and I can’t really be full on either the yes or the no.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I think this is probably the vast majority of.

Statements that I question are gonna fall in this category. It’s gonna be almost rare that I’m gonna get. A hundred percent no. Or a hundred percent yes. In fact, it’s the, the interplay between yes and no and a kind of truth on both sides, that makes it confusing. Um, I think that’s, that’s what brings me into doing the [00:07:00] work sometimes.

Um, although not always. Sometimes I’m just fully believing something and then when I look at it, I’m like, oh, that wasn’t really actually true. I, I was. I was believing something. Um, but I do find that it’s a, there’s a lot of mix in there. There’s a lot of, of gray area. Um, and I’m not a hundred percent sure.

Okay. Is it yes or is it a no? So keep in mind what we’re trying to do here. We’re not trying to come up with the definitive answer on this truth. We’re not writing a Wikipedia article on it. We’re not coming up with something that’s a hundred percent objective. What we’re trying to do is come up with our own experience as much as possible.

It’s a process, and so we’re opening up the question, is it true? To give us a chance to sit in that and see what that does to us. And it’s gonna kind of work us. It’s gonna sit there and go, well, I see [00:08:00] this and that’s true, but then there’s also this, and oh my God, I don’t know, like, you know, I don’t know, feels truer then yes or no.

And, and it’s just gonna sit there and work you. Um, and the more attached I am to a particular idea, the more that question is gonna. Is gonna rub me the wrong way because I don’t want, I don’t wanna even consider if it’s true or not. Uh, I’m, I’m attached. Um, so this question is a kind of medicine, if you will, that, that you put a drop of that in there and it starts to work with the stuff inside of us.

That is, that is attached. That is, um. Kind of bought into the story a hundred percent. And it just adds that little element of doubt. Like, okay, are you sure? Really? Is it true? Can you know that? And the point again, is not to fully disprove it or to fully say, yes, it [00:09:00] is true. Um, the point is to sit in that, it’s a, it’s a meditation.

It’s a, it’s a process. It’s like you throw your clothes in the wash and then you just wash them. And this is what it does to us. It just kinda washes and. You know, agitates us and turns us in and around and, and I don’t know, you know, clothes may still come out with a stain on them. I don’t know. We’re not trying to make it all perfect here.

It’s just throw it in and see what happens. And so what do you do though? Because yes, you could spend a couple of days. And Byron Katie has invited us to do that. Spend as much time as you want, spend days if you need to. She’s done that. Um, so that is an option. And uh, it could be that you just carry that around and touch back on it over several days of like, is it really true?

Yeah. Perfect example of, of this for me, like. [00:10:00] Last Sunday, my dad wrote an email to my sisters and I saying that he thought he was getting ready to die and we’re like all like freaking out and planned trips and you know, we’re all flying over there and everything and, and then I talked to him on Wednesday and I’m like, it doesn’t sound quite as bad as what it sounded in that email, you know?

And so there’s this idea and he may be dying. I don’t know. We’ll find out. But. There’s a, there’s an idea that we have and then we believe it. And in a way, I kind of have sat in, is it true that he’s dying for the last two days since I talked to him on Wednesday? And, and it’s just starting to get a little, like a little clearer, like, Hmm, maybe not, maybe not, uh, or maybe certainly not dead yet.

Um, so the, that question, if you just hold onto it, is it true. Just let it take a few days, [00:11:00] can do some interesting things. And so we don’t have to get the work done on a schedule and be like, okay, 20 minutes in and out and, and got this resolved. Like, no. If you, if you feel too, or if it’s confusing, take your time.

Just take your time and say, put it on hold. The actual writing of the work or speaking of the work and just say, you know, I’m gonna carry this one around for a little while and. Sleep on it and spend a few days and see what comes up. So that’s one option. On the other hand, if you are wanting to just continue through and do the work in a finite amount of time, then um, then still the same thing applies.

We’re just looking for our own experience and our own experience. That’s what meditation is based on your own experience. When you’re, when you’re reporting, experiencing, [00:12:00] noticing what you’re actually feeling and and seeing, uh, inside, then that gives you a connection to yourself. And that’s the purpose of this, just to be more connected.

So the thought comes in, is it true? And. You’re going, ah, it’s 90 10. I’m not sure. I don’t really know. I would at least give it a little more time. Um, and go with your feeling. Go with your feeling. Not like intellectually, but go with where am I landing? Where am I right now? If I had to take a snapshot of where I am with this, with this thought right now, where would it be?

And. Then I can take a snapshot, maybe, maybe not the final truth, but it’s closer and I might say, okay, yeah, it’s 90 10. It’s that it’s actually [00:13:00] not true. Or 90 10, like say it’s true and not, and 10% that it’s not true. Then I might just say, okay, what am I feeling here? You know what? I just have to be honest with myself.

It’s feels true. It’s close enough. There’s some doubts about it, but it still feels kind of true and I’m gonna go with my true. So that’s my yes. I’m saying yes. And then I’ll just trust that. Go on to question two. Question two is gonna say, can you absolutely know it’s true? And I’m sitting in there and I’m like, yeah, I can feel that.

Yes there. But it is still kind of 90 10. That 10 kind of just doesn’t allow me to say yes to can you absolutely know it’s true. And so, okay, I can go with that and then I’ll just move on to question three from there. Um, if I get to the place where I’m like, is it true? And I’m just, I don’t know, like, I just [00:14:00] don’t know.

Um. There’s different ways you can go with that. One is, I don’t know. Well then you can’t just go out proclaiming that. It’s true. Like if I didn’t know something, I’m not gonna get up and announce to people that this is the truth because I don’t really know. So I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. It doesn’t really feel true to me.

This is, this is my thinking here. It just doesn’t have to be your way. But this is what I do. I like kind of think about, okay, is this, is this where I’m, where I’m at? Is this, I. Is this, like, is this something that I can get behind and, and, and open up a webpage about and say, yeah, this is the truth. Uh, or is it the kind of, mm, jury’s still out and until I have a definitive answer, maybe it’s a no, but you could also do the same, the opposite thing, like, okay, I don’t know, but, and jury’s still out, but.

So for [00:15:00] me until I know it’s still a, it still is a, yes, it’s true. So see how subjective this is? This is not about coming to an absolute truth that you can just say for sure this is the way. Um, it’s you listening to yourself and going with. As best you can guess, what is your truth as you see it, um, up to this point with this and sometimes sitting in it will change how you see.

That’s what makes it interesting because just asking the question, is it true can make you start, oh, well, hmm, okay, I thought it was true, but I’m seeing a few other things and, but in the end, where do I land with that? Uh. It’s a subjective thing. It’s totally a subjective thing, but I have to say that landing on a yes or a no is a really important part of the experience of it because it somehow quantifies that [00:16:00] unbounded, nebulous feeling of confusion and don’t know ness.

Uh, it just kind of says. I don’t know, but it’s somewhere I’m, I’m gonna say yes, and something feels good about just landing on that. It’s, it’s, it, it brings it into my body more, brings it into myself more, and then, uh, and then keep going with it. Okay. And, and can you absolutely know it’s true. And maybe it’s, and maybe it’s a yes, you know, and like, okay, I landed there and I can, I can now.

Say that I’ve answered the question as best I could, and I’m ready to go on to the question three and question four and keep going like that. So what the mind loves to do, which is not inquiry, it’s way around inquiry, is to try to say, oh, well, you know, I don’t, don’t, I don’t really know. Um, so it stays safe [00:17:00] in saying, okay, well.

I can’t really know. Anything’s true. That’s one way of saying it. Or I can say stay safe in saying I, uh, I really don’t know. And so I’m just gonna avoid questions one and two. Um, you know, the mind has its little ways to try to avoid actually doing the inquiry. And I know many people, and I’ve done it too, where you just kind of almost skip over questions one and two.

It’s like those are kind of, they’re, they’re. I don’t know where that’s going. It just doesn’t make sense. Let’s get over that quickly or just Yes, yes, yes or yes. Yes. No. You know, let’s just get out of the question as quickly as possible, and then I’ll get into question three. I can really get into that. So the purpose of question one and two probably is to make us a little uncomfortable and to make us kind of stand in a place where we don’t know and try to make sense out of it.

It’s like a researcher, if they. Start researching something that they don’t know anything [00:18:00] about. They’re gonna be, they’re gonna be more questions than answers in the beginning. And they’re gonna be like, ah. And it might be frustrating for someone if they need a definitive answer, but a true researcher is gonna take their time with that and just let it, let those questions percolate.

And over time, uh, answers begin to emerge and they may change and reverse themselves. And there may be all kinds of evolution. To the theories that that come out. Um, all that’s allowed is just keep an open mind. That’s what questions one and two are asking us to do. It’s like keep an open mind, see what we can do, see if we can find something that makes some sense and it challenges us.

Okay. Can you boil it down into a Yes. Can you boil it down into a no? And that’s a challenge. It’s a challenge. So yeah, those are, um, those are my main thoughts on that. The other thing is that’s just the truth, truth [00:19:00] area. Yes and no, I’m sorry. Questions one and two is about whether it’s true or not. That’s one aspect that can start to loosen our grip on a stressful thought.

If it’s not true, it’s kind of hard to hold onto it. But whether or not we go anywhere, got anywhere with questions, one and two. Questions three and four is more on the level of what’s the effect of that thought on us? Does it bring peace or stress? And if it’s always bringing stress, then I’m gonna, that’s also gonna loosen my, my, uh, attachment to the thought.

So if one dimension doesn’t give me much, then the other dimension may give me something. Um, so. You know, you can’t lose in a way, even if you did skip questions one and two, you still got questions three and four that are gonna do a lot for, um, for loosening that attachment before you go into the turnarounds.

But questions one and two. Bottom line. Is there [00:20:00] an opportunity to look at what you believe and see if there’s more, see if, see if you’re missing anything. And, um. You are walking into the unknown every time you ask those questions. And they’re not easy answers. They’re not gonna just pop. Um, just it’s, it’s a process.

It’s a research process. And even don’t be fooled by the simplicity of the yes and no. Like the analogy I give of the jury, they give a yes or no answer. They spend hours in deliberation. They spend days in listening to the trial. They spend a lot of time and attention to come out with a yes or a no. So in a way, the yes or no ultimatum makes us take it seriously.

It makes us have to really think about it, uh, deeper as opposed to just like, ah, well yeah, I don’t really know, which, that’s probably true, but I’m not gonna look too closely. This makes us look closely and that’s the point I.[00:21:00]

Client: Yeah, that, that helped me, uh, um, bring to light the, this tendency. I have had a few times where let’s say it’s the 90% yes. And the 10% no. There’s almost like, um, a part of me that is like stretching to get that no. Because I don’t want the thing to be true. Like, but, but my ego also doesn’t want the thing to be true.

Yeah. Um, so that can, that your answer helped me kind of feel that stretching thing and delineate like, okay, that, that feels like I want it to force. That’s, that’s feeling like I wanna grab onto the No, um, to bypass something.

Todd: That’s right. Then you’re, you’re kind of. You may be jumping ahead of your own evolution, like, oh, I, I want it to [00:22:00] be no and no is the more enlightened answer or whatever, however you wanna phrase that.

And, but the reality is there’s a part of me, like the real part of me is saying, no, it’s yes, I, I believe that I’m attached to that, that’s my experience. And even though it’s wiser to have a no answer, um, the actual true. Wise answer is to have to stick with my own answer to be true to myself. Um, and so yeah, if you’re stretch, stretching is good.

These questions do stretch us, and it’s important to, to kind of allow ourselves to be stretched. But when after getting stretched, see where you actually are. And don’t pretend that you’ve stretched further than you’ve stretched. You know, that’s, yeah. That doesn’t work. Yeah.

Client 2: Mm-hmm.

Todd: So, yeah, honesty is the best policy.

I love it when a client, uh, goes [00:23:00] yes to question one and yes, even to question two. And I’m like, wow, I love your, your honesty and your integrity and just being, you know, not trying to do it right. Uh, I think that’s, uh, really important. So. Yeah, if you listen to yourself, you’ll find your answer. It’s coming from your heart more than your mind, although the mind may also present things that are enough to connect with the heart and and change the heart as well.

So yeah, you’re venturing into the unknown with this question and there are a million ways to do it, and there’s no real right way other than. Be honest with yourself. That’s anything else is you’re playing a game with yourself if you’re not being honest. So just be honest, be authentic as best you can, and if you need more time, take more time.[00:24:00]

Client: Thank you.

Todd: Yeah, thank you. Great question. It’s a powerful question. It’s a powerful question. And it’s easy to, um, bypass it. Yeah.

All right. Any other questions or anything else you’d like to bring up?

Yeah, Wendy,

Client 2: so I’d like a little more clarification on the, um, the unusual turnaround. I’ve been trying to work it. Sometimes I can’t get it to work, and sometimes I can, and I, I’ve forgotten you told me a long time ago, like a criteria, but [00:25:00] I, I don’t remember. Yeah. Okay.

Todd: Yeah. I call it the unusual turnaround because it only shows up very, very seldom.

It’s very unusual. It’s not, uh, it, most statements do not fit the. The criteria for this, uh, turnaround, but it is a powerful turnaround when it does show up and it’s worth, um, using or at least not being scared to look at when it does show up. So this unusual turnaround is, it shows up when you have two things, I don’t know how to explain it better than two things moving in opposite directions.

Um, like. Like, um, I want him to come here, uh, as opposed to, uh, yeah. So let’s take that one. I want him to come here. Turn around to the opposite is I don’t want him to [00:26:00] come here. That’s straightforward. Turn around to the self is I want me to come here, to come to myself. That’s straightforward. And um, I want me to come.

To him. So that would be, that would be the turnaround to the other. Maybe this isn’t the perfect example. ’cause what I was gonna say, the unusual turnaround is I want me to go. To him. But that’s, uh, okay. So I don’t, I don’t have a perfect example on the top of my head. Um, lemme think of a better example.

Well,

Client 2: it’s actually relieving to hear you have as much struggle as I’ve had.

Todd: Well, yeah. It only shows up and I recognize it when it shows up, but it does, I can’t just, um, pull it out my head. The other physical analogy that I use is. Is you’re sitting at a stoplight with two cars. You’re in one car, the other car is, is right next to you, and the other car starts moving forward just lightly.

But you think you’re moving backwards from your perspective. [00:27:00] You’re like, oh, it’s moving backwards. So if the statement was, the car is like, the statement is, um. Yeah. I don’t know what the statement is, but what I’m saying is there are two ways to look at this. One is that car is moving forward, the other is we’re moving backwards and it, it requires something like that to be able to use this unusual turnaround.

Client 2: Okay. But it’s like, I wish

Todd: I had a, what am

Client 2: I doing? That’s actually what I’m accusing them of doing and I’m doing something.

Todd: Yeah, I have an example now. Okay. So.

I want her to listen to me. Okay. Okay, so turn around to the opposite is I want, I don’t want her to listen to me, turn around to the self is I want me to listen to me turn around to the other is I want me to listen to her and the unusual turnaround is I [00:28:00] want me to speak better to her.

Client 2: Like

Todd: to speak, to speak up to her.

So you see how in this case, hearing and speaking are like the, the, that car, that’s one’s going forward and one’s going backwards. Like there’s, they’re equal and opposite actions and it requires something like that for this unusual turnaround to happen. So

Client 2: I need,

Todd: she, I need her to listen to me. Mm-hmm.

Client 2: But I, but I, I need to listen to her would be an opposite, but I need. I need me to say something I like a different word has changed

Todd: maybe. Right. And what word is it? It’s kind of an opposite word of the, it’s opposite action word of the statement That I need her to listen to me like maybe the reason she can’t listen to me is because I’m not explaining things clearly, so I need to be a better communicator.

Client 2: Okay. Yeah. [00:29:00] Got it.

Todd: Yeah.

Client 2: Okay. Yeah, the times that I’ve, it doesn’t listen to me. The times that I’ve used it and it’s been obvious has been really powerful, so,

Todd: right.

Client 2: But what you’re saying also, it’s not always

Todd: the tricky part about it and the reason people dismiss this turnaround sometimes is because it looks like and basically is a double turnaround.

So, uh, it sounds. Like, oh my gosh. Okay. The original statement was, I want her to listen to me and now I’ve turned it from, I want her, I’ve turned it to, I want me. So that’s one kind of turnaround. And then I want her to listen to me, turned around. I want me to communicate better to her. So I’ve turned around, listen to me communicating.

So I’ve turned, changed two things in the same sentence and that. Should send, uh, well look at the balloons. Uh, that should send [00:30:00] like warning messages up that, okay, I’m doing a double turnaround and that may be leading me back to the original statement, which is normally what we call a spin. And it doesn’t go anywhere.

You know, if you turn something around from a 180 degrees and then you turn it around another 180 degrees, it’s 360 degrees, you’re back at zero right where you started. So. That’s why people will often dismiss this turnaround because things like they think it’s a spin. Okay, I’ve just turned around.

Turned around the turnaround. But actually it’s a really insightful turnaround. Yeah. Instead of, I just want her to listen to me. That’s great. Uh, I want me to listen to her. I don’t need her to listen to me. I want me to listen to me. All these are great, but I want me to communicate better to her. Wow, that’s a whole nother dimension that just got introduced there.

And it works, but it’s probably gonna work on like 3% of all statements out there. It’s like [00:31:00] maybe 5%. I don’t know. It’s not that often. So if you can. You can look for it, you can play with it, but it’s not, um, it’s not gonna be your bread and butter kind of turnaround. It’ll be showing up from time to time and, um, and it can wow you sometimes, usually what happens is you kind of, you kind of see a double turnaround and then you’re like.

Oh, that’s kind of cool. And then your mind goes, oh, no, double turnaround. And then you want to dismiss it. But that might be the time to check, oh, is that that unusual one and does it make sense or not? And if it does, great. If not, just leave it. Um, okay. You can tell the difference between a spin and something insightful in that a spin leaves you feeling stressed.

It feels like, oh, I’m still a victim. I’m still in the same position that I was when I started. Whereas a turnaround. Actually shifts something and opens something and balances something to what you were seeing before. And so if you feel [00:32:00] that, then it works. I don’t even care if it’s a even more crazy turnaround than this unusual one here.

Uh, if it, if it shows up and it actually leads you into a place of more openness and balance and, and it, it, it feels like it’s. Um, yeah, expanding your vision. Then we’ll go there. That’s all the, the turnarounds, these technical turnarounds are just pointers for us to try to try to look in places we wouldn’t normally look, and, uh, sometimes they.

Yield amazing things. Sometimes they’re dead ends, but there are a lot of different doors we can knock on and sometimes you’ll find this little unusual turnaround. I, I should probably come up, I think I wrote an article once, um, on my blog of this unusual turnaround with two or three examples of it, but, um, should make a longer list of them.

’cause they’re,

Client 2: yeah, they’re, yeah, they do come out because I, when I do [00:33:00] come up with one, it’s a big aha for me. And so I try to find it each time and I don’t find it very often, so I thought I was doing something wrong, but that’s, yeah, it’s

Todd: a rare one. A rare, like I said, 5% of the time Max, I would say. And so you’re, if you’re looking, don’t be too attached to finding, because you probably not gonna find, you just will find every once in a while.

And

Client 2: there are times I feel better if I look and see, oh, you know what I, I. In that moment when I’ve said something like, oh, I could have actually communicated better with that person. I remember that at the time, I intentionally didn’t communicate better knowing that I could have, so sometimes that helps me with that turnaround because it’s like, yeah, I kind of had, you know, I, I blew it off rather than doing that.

So, exactly. And it doesn’t make me feel worse. It just makes me feel like, oh, I, I have another opportunity coming up, you know?

Todd: Yeah. Another telltale sign of a good [00:34:00] turnaround is that it brings the responsibility back to me.

Client 2: Yeah.

Todd: And if you take it too far, you can, you can beat yourself up with it. That’s never the point of a turnaround.

But if you, if you take it and you see like, oh, I could actually communicate better, then I’m not as dependent on that person listening. I’m not a, I’m not a victim of their inability to listen, because I can be a better explainer. I can be a better listener myself, I can be a better communicator. Um, I can, yeah, like that.

So, uh, it’s like a, it would be similar to I. I want my student to be a better student. Well, I want me to be a better teacher so that I can explain things better to that person. Then they will actually probably be a better student. So, you know, it is taking responsibility for yourself and that feels good and it’s empowering.

Client 2: Thank you.