How to Handle Customer Service Chaos Without Losing It: The Work of Byron Katie for Highly Sensitive People

Client: Okay, so the ongoing saga of getting old kind of stuff. So we signed up in the us um, you know, we have a, a, a deplorable. Medical system. It’s just crazy. And once you get a certain age, if you’re not working, then you end up having the federal coverage, Medicare, all that stuff. Right? So, um, we signed up for it in time, but they keep making mistakes.

Uh, one point they switched my husband’s and mys accounts, so they had to cancel those and start again. And now they’ve sent. Us, they finally got to sending us the right stuff, but he got half of it, only half of what he needs, and I’ve got the other half of what I need. [00:04:00] So I’ve got stuff that he hasn’t gotten yet, and he’s got stuff that I haven’t gotten yet, and it’s all due like that needs to be paid by Friday kind of thing.

And you know, like there’s, there’s no way. And then they can just cancel it if, because it’s not paid. So they’re, they’re just effed up.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So, so what’s the, you know, like the, you’ve got, it’s gotta be paid by Friday and they haven’t given you all this stuff, so,

Client: and they Yeah. And they keep making mistakes and they’re just, they’re, I, I have no trust in this level of incompetence.

Mm-hmm. You know, and these are people who are supposed to. Pay for the medication and pay for the, yeah, it’s just pharmaceutical payment, but

Todd: so what is, they’re gonna

Client: keep messing up. Yeah. It’s, it’s, and what do you

Todd: need from them? You know, what are [00:05:00] you wanting or needing from them? Here? I’m needing,

Client: I’m needing them to get our, you know, our account straightened out and I need to know how much.

I need to, I need all my documentation. I have medication and my husband has medication that needs to be ordered soon and we can’t order it until he gets his thing. I’ve got mine, but I can’t, I won’t get it ’cause mine won’t be paid. ’cause they haven’t sent me the bill. Yeah. So it’s, it’s like,

Todd: okay, I think that’s good.

So I need them to get our accounts straightened out. Yeah, it’s a good starting point. Okay. So is that true?

Client: Yeah.

Todd: And can you absolutely know it’s true. You need them to get your account straightened out.

Client: I am gonna go with, yeah. Okay.

Todd: So how [00:06:00] do you react? What happens when you think you need them to get their, your account straightened out? And they obviously have not, and there’s a due date on Friday.

Client: I, I feel, um, frustrated and helpless. Um, a lack of trust that the, I, you know, I look for different ways of being able to.

Take care of it. You know, if it doesn’t get straightened out and it’s time to renew the medications, you know, I’m looking like they’ve got this many days to do that and kind of thing. And then what will happen, and the worst that can happen is, you know, I’m looking for the, what’s the worst that can happen and would I, would I ever get reimbursed for it kind of thing because mm-hmm.

It’s the, like this, the medication I’m on is really expensive. This insurance pays for 90% of it, [00:07:00] which is helpful. But the, you know, and it’s like, I doubt, you know, and then I see myself, well, I guess I, I can’t get the medication in my head. If I can’t get the medication, then I. I’m gonna have to go have another heart surgery.

Mm-hmm. So it’s gonna, it’s like, okay. Yeah. But another way of saying it is, these guys are gonna kill me. Mm-hmm. Without me thinking, you know, I, I’ll have a spontaneous healing or whatever, you know. So, um. And then I, I feel, you know, a little bit of panic, which isn’t helpful. And, um,

and then I contact, because we do have a person who’s supposed to be on top of all of this who keeps saying, don’t worry, it’ll show up, you know, but doesn’t know what isn’t here. You know, it’s [00:08:00] like, so I keep sending them an email and she’ll go, oh, you’ll get it in the next week or two, but. That then that’s past the due date of it, you know, and so I, I feel like I, there’s no help.

I see this future of just having to figure out how to live without medication. I see.

Um, I see me getting angry, something I don’t like to do, like I can usually. Smooth it out, work it out, come up with a plan.

Todd: How are you treating them when you think you need them to get your accounts? I’m treating

Client: them with sarcasm and you know, in my mind, I’m treating the company with. They’re just incompetent and I won’t trust anything that they do again. And, and it makes me wanna [00:09:00] try different, you know, go to a different company.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then the representative isn’t of their business, but this is the what’s available. So the person who’s doing all this together, it’s just, I’m sure we’re not the only person that she has to deal with them being incompetent, but that’s part of her job is. Being the go-between, between that company and us, and I feel like she’s placating me, but at the same time, she’s probably, I imagine her reading my email saying, okay, you know, James doesn’t have his card yet, but he got his bill.

I’ve got my card, but no Bill, you know.

And, and his is due like in two days. And so I figure mine’s probably gonna be due in two days and I’m leaving tomorrow morning to be outta town. So it won’t, you know, it’s [00:10:00] like I won’t be able to, I won’t be able to pay it on time because I’m not getting it. And, you know, this whole stuff. And, and then it just, it’s like.

It can’t be that hard. That’s where I go, you know, my thoughts are, it can’t be that hard.

Todd: Yeah, exactly. Lose patience with then.

Client: Yes.

Todd: And

Client: then I go into, well, you know, I’m the rescuer. I gotta figure out how to, you know, what’s the backup plan? We gotta have a backup plan. Right,

Todd: right.

Client: And the backup plan is.

Expensive. Mm-hmm. Or find out I, you know, and then I like, what’s the best thing that could happen is another part of the backup plan. It’s not in the state of. Without the thought, it’s in the state of with the thought. The best that can happen is I have a [00:11:00] spontaneous healing and I’ll never need the medication again.

You know?

Todd: So the mind gets like, how do you react when you think you need them to get our account straightened out? The mind gets really busy,

starts problem solving, looking even miracles are on the map in terms of what it.

So who would you be without the thought that you need them to get your account straightened out?

Client: Well, I’d be grateful that I have someone who represents me because it’s probably not a good idea for me to be contacting that, that company directly. And, and so there’s someone who’s worked with them and knows them and. Probably has a way of being able to solve it and let her sit on the phone for hours and work it out.

So, I’m grateful that I do have someone who represents, [00:12:00] um, without the thought, it is a little bit of a, you know, one of those kind of, oh, well, that’s kind of how the systems work. So it’s an, it’s a, it’s a happy but. Like, eh, yeah. It’ll work out kind of feeling. At the same time. It’s a, there’s some disappointment even without the thought, there’s some disappointment.

Mm-hmm. That pretty much everything else went through with great efficiency. And this is a comparison, kind of like the complete opposite of how efficient everything else was. Um, all the different kinds of. It, it’s eye-opening. Uh, it’s been without the thought. It’s like, wow, this is an education. This is appreciating people who have to sit on the phone and get these things straightened out a lot more.[00:13:00]

And then, um, knowing that, you know, or believing that in the long run it goes, it’ll all work out. I’m just like, I was like, yeah, people make mistakes. This company’s not very good. You know, it’s Right. It’s, yeah, but with

Todd: the thought it was not, it was almost like that wasn’t even possible to think that everything will just work out.

Right. It’s not even somehow

Client: or other it will just work out.

Todd: Yeah. So without the thought, you

Client: know, and it may take a while, but ultimately it will. And if the worst,

worst case is I don’t have the medication, then I don’t have the medication, who knows? I may not need it anymore. You know, best case scenario is I don’t need the medication [00:14:00] anymore. Hmm. And in the back of my head, I’m like, I don’t like taking medication anyway. What if I don’t? What if I don’t need it? Hmm.

Right. I mean, how many people, especially in the US, are taking medication that they don’t need? ’cause pharmaceutical companies here will tell you you need something when you don’t.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: So what’s the main difference for you between with the thought versus without the thought that you need them to get your account straightened out?

Client: Well, with the thought, it’s my problem, and without the thought, it’s not my problem, it’s their problem.

Todd: Yeah.[00:15:00]

For you on the stress level, what is the difference,

Client: the best level

Todd: on the stress level? Oh, stress level. Level on level of stress. What’s the, what’s the difference between with and without the thought you need them to get your account straightened out.

Client: Yeah. It’s a reduction in thought. It’s not immediately eliminated.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So

that’s it. It’s a reduction of stress, not it’s, yeah,

Client: it’s a reduction. Completely gone. Not, is there other

Todd: pieces of it?

Client: How could I look at it without stress? Is that what you’re asking? Uh,

Todd: nope. Nope. Just what you said is perfect because all we’re doing here is looking at the effect of this particular thought.

This thought, I need them to get our accountant straightened out. Account straightened out carries a certain amount of stress. Has the react, the reaction comes, a certain amount of stress is there. Without it, [00:16:00] a certain amount of stress is not there. But it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other pieces of this that are still maybe stressful.

Um, so we’re just looking at the effect of this.

Client: Well, without the thought, it’s actually a little bit funny. It’s kind of like, I don’t, I hide it’s one company make that many mistakes, that e every step they’ve taken so far has been, has included an error, like it has to be costing them. So much in, you know, lost time and stuff for all the errors that I’ve never seen anything as incompetent in my life.

And it’s almost funny, right? It’s like what are they gonna do next?

Todd: Right? Stay tuned.

Client: And then I look at the, and and there is something good about it. They deal exclusively with the organization that is already my pharmacy. So, uh, so in my head I’m like, I’m gonna go talk to my pharmacist and we’re [00:17:00] gonna have a good long laugh at how incompetent they are. So, yeah.

Todd: So how would you turn the thought around?

I need them to get our accounts straightened out.

Client: I need me to get my account straight now.

Todd: Okay, what does that mean? What could that mean? That means that

Client: I, you know, I need to be responsible for my, my own health. And, um, and if it, if it takes,

uh, and, and another shot at this. Statement, I would be relieved to not need to take this medication anymore because I don’t like taking medication to begin with. And, and two of the medications that I’m on right now, um, in my head, I don’t really think I need them. My doctor wants me to stay on them, but I think that [00:18:00] if I stopped taking them, I would be fine and that there would be natural ways of being able to get the same results.

So in, in a sense there’s almost this kind of a, I, wouldn’t it be cool if I can’t get these medications anymore and I can go on to more natural ways of maintaining my health?

Todd: I need to get my accounts straightened out. Yeah.

Client: So my account is, um, you know, am I causing somehow or another causing this disruption?

Because I’m resisting actually taking these medications. They have side effects I don’t like, so it could be like, maybe there’s a little piece of me going, and then you don’t have to take these anymore, and then you could just mm-hmm. You know?

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: Which could be why the mind would become more impatient with them when [00:19:00] they are incompetent.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: Because.

Client: I would be projecting that over to them.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Now is my chance or something. I don’t know.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: Any other meanings for I need to get my accounts straightened out?

Client: The thing that comes up is just a little bit of. Giving, cutting people some slack. Okay. You know?

Todd: Yep.

Client: Yeah.

I don’t, I don’t know what that company’s going through.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Notice the difference in feeling when you see that as opposed to mm-hmm. Needing them to get their accounts, you know, your accounts straightened [00:20:00] out the.

It’s a difference. Yeah. It’s an in, it’s a difference of experience. So I need me to get,

Client: yeah, because if I, I mean, maybe there’s this one person who’s dealing with my account making this up, but it’s, it’s giving me some relief if one person who’s dealing with my account, but that person is going through.

Their own trauma in their life, and so they’re making mistakes. I’ve made mistakes when I’ve been going through trauma and other people have been affected by my mistakes, so yeah, I can, I can cut them some slack by cutting myself some slack because

Todd: mm-hmm.

Client: I can actually just be grateful that the company exists.

They will get it straightened out eventually. I have a good. Representative who takes care of that stuff, and I’m sitting here just, you know, judging someone for being incompetent. When, boy, [00:21:00] I, you know, I have my moments

Todd: right. You never know what’s going on for them either as an individual or whatever kinds of company stuff you have to organize.

I know from my company how, how challenging it can be to do some of that IT stuff. I also don’t know, gee.

Client: I dunno if you hear my dog.

Todd: Yeah, we hear it.

Client: Um, I also don’t know, um, if it was the company that’s been making the mistake or my agent that has been giving them the wrong information. I mean,

Todd: you never know because

Client: I don I don’t know where the breakdown is occurring and so I’m just automatically assuming that it’s that company and.

Or maybe they did mail it and it’s lost in the mail. I mean, it’s like, there’s just all these other things that are possibilities that[00:22:00]

aren’t what aren’t my first thought, just blaming them.

Todd: Right. I need to get my account of what’s happening here, straightened out before I just jump to blame. Right. Because they don’t, yeah.

Client: I really don’t know where the breakdown occurs. Mm-hmm. Maybe I check the wrong box on something.

Todd: Right. Right.

Client: Yeah.

Todd: And is there anything more you can do from your side? There may not be, but in just in case there are no.

Client: I did send, I shot off a, a quick email to the agent saying, okay, yay, we received this. Have not received that, have not received my payment book so far. You know, it’d be nice to be able to pay it on time.

I’m going outta town. Let me know what you want me to do.

Todd: So as long as you’re doing everything you can from your side, then, then I can, but I [00:23:00]

Client: do, I have to share something really funny with you. This is my husband’s payment book Once a month, he has to pay 40 cents

the whole ticket book here of 40 cents a month for a year.

Todd: My goodness. Well, I guess that’s a good kind of problem to have, but that is pretty funny.

Yes, I’m getting the,

Client: yeah, I’m a little jealous. ’cause mine’s like 80 bucks a month, but the medication itself is $400 a month. So I think 80 bucks a month is,

Todd: you’re saving is

Client: a good deal.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So is there another turnaround? I need them to get our accounts straightened out.[00:24:00]

Client: I know this sounds really strange, but I need to, I need them to, to keep making mistakes.

Todd: Okay.

Client: Okay. Um,

I need them to be humans. Okay. I, I need them to,

to remind me that they’re humans and.

Todd: How did, how did that serve you?

Client: And I, and I need to keep having them make mistakes until I stop reacting to those mistakes. Hmm. Like I’m a victim. Mm-hmm. Versus a, a mistake was made.

Todd: Right. Okay. What are we gonna do about it that’s different than victim. Yeah. [00:25:00] And the mind goes crazy. So I need them to keep making mistakes.

Interesting. I

Client: can’t start, can’t hear you now.

Todd: Can you hear me now?

Client: Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. So I need them to keep making mistakes.

Client: Yeah. Yeah. I need them to be normal like everyone else. I don’t want them perfect.

Todd: Right.

Client: And I need to see my reaction to their mistakes as being. Oh, okay. That’s not, oh, it’s supposed to be this and it’s that. Okay. You know, instead of a reaction to it. So it’s kind of like I look forward to, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I’m making mistakes.

Todd: It’s gonna draw out whatever stressful stories you have there, whatever reactions you may have there.

It’s gonna draw it out so you can see it. And. And, uh, and work it like we’re doing now.

Client: I would not want someone responding to me if I [00:26:00] made a mistake the way I would respond to them. In my mind, I wouldn’t respond that way to them physically, but in my mind. Right. Yeah. So I would hope that I would just be allowed to make mistakes and I would allow mistakes to happen.

Todd: Yeah. It feels very generous. Yeah,

Client: that would be more, more calm for everybody.

Todd: Okay. That was a full turnaround. Um, any other turnaround? I need them to get our accounts written out. Hmm.

Client: No. If you can think of one, that’d be great.

Todd: Um, I don’t know if it really is viable or not, but [00:27:00] the, technically the turnaround could be I need me to get their accounts straightened out and I don’t know if that makes any sense in this case, but

Client: I don’t, yeah, I don’t know how that would happen.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Neither,

Client: um, because I’ve.

There’s, okay, I’m going to step outside that same line for something. Um, there’s a lot to keep track of here. You know, I, I had no, I realized that when my husband was working before he retired, um, we paid, you know. $70 a month each, so $140 a month to the company, and then we had all this insurance, so everything was covered through this one company and now in retirement.

There’s Medicare Part A, then there’s part B, then there’s part C, and then there’s part D, and then there’s part G, and then there’s Medica. There’s, [00:28:00] so there’s like five different, and there are different organizations are not like one person where you get all this, you have to apply for, oh, well you can apply for A and B at one, one’s hospital and the other’s doctors.

And then part C is. A private company and then part D is drugs and Part G pays the gap between what they allow. In other words, it’s kind of like insurance for your insurance and, and then it’s like, and they’re all different companies.

Todd: Wow.

Client: It’s it, and it’s, uh, it’s, I, I don’t know how older people in the US pay for it.

It’s expensive.

Todd: So, so I need to get their account straightened out, like, yeah, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. You almost have to make a spreadsheet and get clear on what, uh, what you’re dealing with here.

Client: And then I’ve got like five cards, Uhhuh, like, which card do I use for what, you know, and, [00:29:00] and a different medical number for each one of them.

And. Right. Different contracts with each one. So yeah, I need to get my, I need to get their account straightened out. Yeah.

Todd: Cool. And it sounds like, yeah, complicated, you could say a bit of a hassle, but what I’m hearing also is that it can save you money, um, as opposed to having to pay directly for insurance, um, through private.

Uh, private company, is that right? Yeah.

Client: Private companies have to approve something before, you know, you can be laying there in the emergency room and if they don’t approve it, something, then you don’t get it where this, uh, they just, they just pay it.

Todd: I see. Okay.

Client: Yeah. So yeah, it

Todd: has some advantages.

Definitely, but it comes with a cost of complication. That’s just the nature of the beast, which is so funny

Client: because ironically [00:30:00] it’s, you know, it’s like the older people have, I don’t know, the older I get, the less good I am at keeping track of all these different things and so, you know, gets older, he gets more complicated even when it’s simple.

Yeah.

Todd: So that’s, yeah. Cost of that particular solution. And it’s a matter of, okay, what can I do to make sure I am at least straight as, straight as I can be on all these details and then they’re gonna make the

Client: right paperwork and

Todd: Yep. And then that’s the best I can do. Yeah,

Client: and that’s the last thing. That’s the best I can do.

You know, and at and at that moment, I think everyone does the best they can do in that moment. And sometimes the best I can do is crap.

Todd: Right. Right.

Client: You know? And so, you know. Yeah.

Todd: Even if you think of the system as a whole, it’s probably the best it can do under the situation and circumstances of [00:31:00] the political state of the United States.

This way, in that way, and who knows how long this has been going on. I think. Yeah, it’s understandable. We’re all just doing the best we can.

If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and then to the open sessions page. And there you can see the upcoming schedule. You can join in, uh, you’re welcome to just come and listen. We have seven spots available each week and you can also bring your questions and, uh, you can always bring a stressful thought or stressful situation so that we can actually do the work together.

While you’re at the work as meditation.com, I also encourage you to take a look at private sessions. I have a few hours left. Um, for people who want to do the work on a monthly basis or even more frequently [00:32:00] than that, as a way of just getting a, an experience of the work in a fully supported kind of situation.

These are fully private and they’re also a way of. Working one-on-one with me, but at the same time using this simple process of the work. So if you’re interested in dealing with any particular issue that’s hanging you up at this point or that you should want some extra attention on, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the private sessions page.

Next, I’m gonna read one of my newsletter articles called Interruptions Are Tests.

If you’re like me, interruptions are not something you relish. My idea of happiness is having uninterrupted time and space to go as deeply into something as I like. When interruptions come, they often jar me and I [00:33:00] react. Whenever I react to something, I can be sure that I’m believing some kind of thought.

All I have to do is find it and question it to open up a new experience for myself. Therefore interruptions. Test me to see what stressful thoughts are left for me to question. I did some work on interruptions recently, and I use as always, a simple approach of self-inquiry called the work of Byron Katie.

In this case, I found a situation where I was interrupted, in which I noticed a clear stress reaction. This was the smoking gun, letting me know that somewhere inside I was holding a belief that argued with reality. I didn’t have to look far the thought he is interrupting me itself was a stressful thought.

I tend to trust these stressful, obvious thoughts to question, so I went with it. I questioned, he is interrupting me. You know, is it true? And I saw how [00:34:00] stressful it was to hold that thought and how interesting it would be if I didn’t see it that way, even if the same events occurred, I soon saw that interruption is a concept, a concept that I define.

Anything other than what I’m doing is considered an interruption, an obstacle, an imposition by me. That seems to be the way I was looking at it, and somehow when I believe this, I feel justified in being angry at the interruption. But what if I saw it differently? What if I discovered in this process of self-inquiry.

Uh, and one of the things I discovered here is that I don’t have to define something as an interruption. That’s my, I’m the one who defines it. It’s like when I’m meditating, if I notice my mind is thinking other thoughts, I just gently come back to the meditation. Thoughts are not an interruption. They’re actually a part of the meditation.

What if I thought of any interruption as an integral [00:35:00] part of the situation, as worthy of attention as my original task? When I think about all the pathways that my life has taken over the decades, I see that everything I value today was at one point an interruption from what I was doing previously. I thought I would live a typical life when I was young, but that idea got interrupted by my interest in meditation, and I found myself living in an ashram.

Then just when I thought I’d spend all my days in the ashram, my grandmother’s needs interrupted me. Without the interruptions, I would not be where I am today. This happens on the micro and macro level, small interruptions, big interruptions. What if I saw them all differently? Not as interruptions, but as part of the flow?

It all depends on how tightly I hold my focus. I tend to hold my focus very tightly so that [00:36:00] interruptions jar me. If I held the same focus loosely, I can move with the interruptions and feel less of a shock each time I get interrupted. It is I who interrupts my inner connection and flow. I could just as easily flow into each interruption before flowing back into my original task.

It’s, it’s my breaking of flow. Something I do to myself that is so disagreeable to me that makes me feel like jarred, if I didn’t do this inside of myself, interruptions would cease to be interruptions at all. This doesn’t mean I won’t continue to find quiet places when I want to focus. I can dig deeper too, to find more stressful thoughts to question I can ask myself.

Why am I so attached to doing this without interruption? What am I needing? What am I wanting? Answering these questions in specific situations can help identify [00:37:00] my attachments more clearly. Attachments are just thoughts, and these thoughts can be questioned. There is no stress without attachment. No stress without a want or a need.

When I find it and question it, my attachment often loosens, and that is a setup for more flexibility with interruptions. So if you want to work on your stressful situations, including stressful thoughts about being interrupted. Then why not join me for a private session and for my Inquiry Circle group as a way of looking at stressful situations and using them as the starting point for beginning a new perspective, looking for a new perspective in your self when you do this, when you do this work with Byron Katie, uh, I find that it changes everything.

It changes the experience, it changes the feeling, and it’s a lot of fun as well. I. [00:38:00] So I’ll finish with a quote from Byron Katie from her book, A Thousand Names for Joy. As you inquire into your own thoughts, you discover how attachment to a belief or story causes suffering. The mind’s natural condition is peace.

Then a thought enters you believe it, and the peace seems to disappear. You notice the feeling of stress in the moment. The feeling lets you know that you’re opposing what is. By believing the thought, it tells you that you’re at war with reality. When you question the thought behind the feeling and realize it isn’t true, you become present outside your story.

So thanks for listening and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Share it with a friend I. Post something on social media. Leave a review for the podcast if you haven’t done so, and stop by the work as [00:39:00] meditation.com to get my newsletter to participate in open sessions like the one you heard here today, and to join in for the Inquiry Circle group that I have, or to join me in private sessions or to join our virtual retreats.

There’s a lot going on at the work as meditation. I invite you to check it out. And join me to do the work of Byron Katie. Until the next time, have a great week.