Episode 93
Have you ever felt your mind is at peace with a decision, but your heart still aches?
In this deeply personal session, we explore the emotional gap between understanding a loss intellectually and feeling it emotionally. Whether you’re grieving a lost opportunity, a relationship, or a dream that didn’t materialize, this episode helps you bridge that gap with clarity and compassion.
Discover how to gently guide your emotional self to align with your rational mind using The Work of Byron Katie.
Learn how grief and disappointment can be natural parts of letting go—and how they can transform into curiosity and openness.
Hear a real-life journey from emotional attachment and fear to peace, hope, and the “field of all possibilities.”
Press play now to witness a live, heartfelt session that shows how to transform grief into trust and openness to life’s unfolding journey.
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Client: I have something maybe, um, this afternoon I got a message that the, as you know, I’m looking for a permanent place and, um. And, uh, this afternoon I got the message that the place that I was hoping for has, has gone to someone else, Uhhuh. And the [00:04:00] interesting thing is, yeah, and the interesting thing is in my mind, I know that this is the best for me.
So I, I really believe that. Um. That, um, there will be a better place or I will end up any, any way on the place where I should be. So, so my mind knows that, but it’s as if my emotional part is not really, um, how you say that. Um, it doesn’t catch up yet.
Todd: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s. That happens a lot. I think that happens, um, very often that the mind gets it.
I know, I trust, I know it’s gonna be the best for me, but there’s some part on the emotional level, on the heart level that it’s not, [00:05:00] it’s just not a hundred percent there yet. That is precisely what the work is for. Um, it’s to give that part a chance to catch up, as you say. So let’s see if we can do the work on that, if you’re, if you’d like to.
I, so, yeah. Um, what is that emotional heart saying? What is it thinking that is making it feel? Like it not
Client: the strongest touching out the strongest thought. Yeah. This place was really like perfect in, I have a lot of points that I want to be fulfilled, and this place was perfect. So the thought is really, I will never find a place like that again.
Todd: Okay,
Client: and I’m going to try to find the place maybe. So, is that true?[00:06:00]
Todd: Okay.
Client: Um,
Todd: so is it true that you’ll never find a place like that again?
Client: I can’t know. So even if I would say yes to this question, it would be no to the next.
Todd: Okay. And make sure when you’re answering these questions that you’re letting this emotional heart answer.
Client: Yeah. It would be no to the second question. I cannot know for sure. Okay,
Todd: cool. So how do you react? What happens when some part of you thinks you will never find a [00:07:00] place like that again?
Client: It, it kind of feels like, um, grieving. Like I, I was already imagining myself in that place and I was seeing how I would put everything and, you know, and so, um, so it feels as if I have to, it’s really strange.
It feels as if I have to leave a place. I’ve even never lived there. And it still feels like that.
Todd: Yeah. Like you moved in already. Now you, you have to move out.
Client: Yes, exactly. Yes.
So, uh, so it really feels a bit like grieving. Um, and I, I feel a bit jealous about the people who have it now. Hmm. [00:08:00] Who were able to afford it. And, um, but at, at the other hand, I also feel like wow, they’re lucky. Um, I, I, uh, I’m fine for, I’m, I’m, I’m happy for them that, uh, at the same time. Yeah. Um,
Todd: so when you’re thinking you will never find a place like that again, what other reactions come up?
Client: Um, I see images of, um, of me ending up in a very poor place or so. Um, I’m looking for a place because I get older, so I need some, some things that are easier for older people, like, like food shops nearby or stuff like that. So. [00:09:00] I see myself in a place where are no, there are no food shops, for example, or, or, um, it’s very, uh, noisy, which I just can’t take.
Uh, so it’s, uh, it’s all, all these, all these conditions. Um. It feels like, uh, there will never be a place where all these conditions will be fulfilled.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Client: So
Todd: when you were thinking, you know, you’ll never find a place like this, and this place was perfect, what were, what were some more of those conditions?
What were some of those images? You know, it was quiet. It was close to food shops. What else?
Client: It was, it was brand new. So, um, it was according to [00:10:00] the standards that are legally, how you say that, that are obligated?
Todd: Yeah. It’s up to code.
Client: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, so there were no more extra costs then to renew it or whatever.
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Client: Um, it was close to, um, public transportation. Um, it was close to my mom’s place, which is, which is not really a condition that I need, but it’s something that is, that would be good. Um, I. Or they were, I had a whole list. I still have the list.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah. So this is a good, a good, even if this is just part of the list, this is a good, uh, list.
Yeah. And there
Client: should be, uh, an [00:11:00] elevator or it should be on, on the, on the first floor. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, all these. Uh, all these things for when you get older, that is important when you get older.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So when you see all these images about this place, and now this place is no longer available and you think you’ll never find a place like this again.
Um. Any other reactions that happen? Where do you feel it in your body? Any other kinds of reactions?
Client: Uh, it feels tense around my heart. Um,
my cheeks are, are, um, clenched a bit. Um.[00:12:00]
My heart is beating faster. It’s, uh, it’s mainly around the heart.
Todd: Hmm.
And then what do you see in the future, now that this house is gone, what do you see about your life and about, um. Yeah, your, your future.
Client: Um, apart from the images that I already said that it would be a poor whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, it’s actually interesting to see that there, that mind that is trusting comes up more as if, um, I.
Okay, this door is closed, but other doors will open. You know that, that’s a bit the feeling. Yeah. That [00:13:00] I get.
Todd: Which is kind of moving into the next question of who would you be without the thought that you’ll never find a place like that?
Client: Um, so who would
Todd: you be?
Client: Yeah, I would just, just be open and excited to see what, what, what will be next.
And I, I actually, that, that was also funny. I wrote that to my daughter who lives in England, uh, uh, that I didn’t get it. And she said, oh, but it, so the little, the place. It’ll think, uh, that there is a, a place like me, uh, um, two, 2.0 waiting for you.
Todd: Cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:14:00]
Client: So, yes, that’s a bit How, so wasn’t
Todd: like on the, yeah. And notice this is, um, we started with this. Saying there was an emotional part that was not catching up. Right. There was a, but this is also what we’re asking is who would you be emotionally? And you’re, you’re sharing that, you’re saying that it’s like there’s a excitement, I think you said Yes.
Um, yes. And
Client: it’s, it’s the way. So play with
Todd: that a little more. Go into that. Yeah.
Client: Uh, the way I feel is the way I normally am in life, it feels adventurous. It feels. Because it’s open. I, I really love not to know. So, because that, that’s the field of all possibilities and that’s how it starts to feel again now.
Yeah,
Todd: yeah. Like back to yourself, back home, to the way you normally see the, your world, [00:15:00] the life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So turn the thought around. I will never find a place like that again.
Client: I will find a place like that again, uh, at some point.
Todd: Okay. How is it possible?
Client: Um, well, since I don’t know, it’s possible anyway,
Todd: you just finished saying a field of all possibilities, so.
Exactly. It must be possible. Yeah,
Client: it must be okay. Um,
Todd: even the 2.0 version of it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Client: Um.
Um, I’m just curious and I wouldn’t be curious if I wouldn’t believe there is something coming up. I mean, [00:16:00] what point, what point does curious to, does being curious, uh, have when there is nothing? Mm-hmm. When there would not be anything coming up.
Todd: Yeah, it’s something about being curious that tells you there must be some at least possibility of something coming up.
Otherwise the mind wouldn’t go there. Yeah. Think about all your criteria, right? You wanted something quiet, close to food shops, something new with no extra costs, something close to public transport, close to your mom’s place. Mm-hmm. First floor or elevator. Mm-hmm. What are the chances that this is not the only place that would meet all of those possibilities, all those criteria.
Client: The, the one thing that makes [00:17:00] it really difficult is that it should be small.
Todd: Oh. And it should be small too. Okay. And normally these
Client: kind of things you only find in cities, but that, that’s where I don’t, I can’t live in cities. So, so it, it is kind of a challenge, but still. You never know. Okay.
Todd: It’s, it’s a tall order.
You’re asking for a lot. Yes. But what are the chances? How long have you been looking so far before you found this one?
Client: This one was really an exception, so that’s what they, they told themselves too. So it’s, um, but I kind of hope. Uh, since there are much more singles nowadays and, uh, people want, want to live in smaller places because of the energy costs, because [00:18:00] of whatever, there may, uh, be more building like that now.
So it may, it may become more available than it is now, so, okay.
Todd: It’s possible. And, and how long have you been searching for a place?
Client: Oh, it’s, it started like two years ago, but not very actively yet at that time. Okay. And so, so in
Todd: two years of not being very active, you already found one. Mm-hmm. Um, so in another year, or who knows if, especially if you’re more active.
What are the chances? It could, if it, if it came once it’s possible, it could come again. I could, if there’s one, there must be more than one. It’s possible. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I will find a place like that again. [00:19:00] Um,
and
yeah. Is there any other turnaround? I will never find a place like that again.
Client: Uh, I dunno whether that makes sense, but I will never lose a place like that again. It’s a bit, okay. Strange.
Todd: What could that mean? Never lose a place like that again.
Client: Um. Well, I didn’t have it to begin with. If you don’t have it, you can’t lose it.
Todd: That’s right. The worst that could happen to you is you imagined you were there and then you are now imagining you’re gone.
But yes, in reality, you never had to actually lose it.
Client: Yeah.
Todd: Okay. Yeah.
Client: [00:20:00] Um. I was just thinking, but I’m not sure whether that’s really an example for this turnaround, but it came to my mind that perhaps my conditions may uh, change.
Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Client: I don’t know. I now have a list, but maybe I stumble on a place that is totally different and still feels okay.
Todd: Interesting. Yeah. So you have these criteria. Maybe you find something that matches the, that criteria. Mm-hmm. It’s still possible. And maybe your criteria change a little bit and it opens up for more places you might find something you fall in love with.
Client: Yes.
Todd: That, um, maybe it doesn’t have exactly everything you were imagining.
Client: Yeah. And another thing is I can’t really imagine that to be true, but since we never [00:21:00] know that is that legislation, Flemish legislation changes and that all of a sudden you can put a tiny house up in someone’s garden.
Todd: Who knows. Field of all possibilities. Yeah. Yeah. This is what an open mind feels like.
Like you’re just imagining so many different ways of having what you’re looking for, which is a perfect place. Perfect. Can be defined by all the criterion you already listed, or it can be defined by the feeling I have when. I am content with where mm-hmm. Whatever it is. And so that might be slightly different.
There, laws may change, you may find the exact thing, or you may find that you’re happy in a different place. Like all these, now we’re looking at a lot of possibilities. Mm-hmm. There’s, there’s a lot more [00:22:00] chances that you will find a place that feels perfect to you. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it’s, uh, sometimes our family watches some real estate show in England or something and it, uh, they have a, I forget what they call it, like a mystery house or something. Oh yeah, I know that series. And they. Sometimes the, they like that one better than the one that they were trying to, to, uh, they originally were looking for.
So it’s, it’s interesting.
So any other turnarounds? I’ll never find a place like that again.
Client: Mm. I can’t really. Do you, do you have another one?
Todd: It’s, [00:23:00] we kind of already touched on it, but it’s could be something like, I will never find a place like this again. Uh, meaning like, the feeling of this is perfect. Um. Mm-hmm. And, and. It’s, I say that it’s kind of a turnaround, but it’s, you might have to hold it a little bit more gently.
You know what I’m saying? Like, it could be that there’s perfect, okay, go. Where do you go?
Client: Yeah. That, that has to do with those criteria.
Todd: Yeah.
Client: Yeah,
Todd: yeah.
Client: Mm-hmm.
Todd: And what are you really looking for? Is it, is it that every criteria is met, or is that you feel like this is perfect? Mm-hmm.
Client: Yeah, the latter probably, because if it’s perfect, it’s perfect, then no criteria matter.
It’s uh, yeah,
Todd: it could even go closer to your own situation right now where you’re [00:24:00] living right now. Like, how is this perfect?
Client: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Todd: So give me a few examples why. Where you are right now, even if it’s temporary, is, uh, a perfect place. You’ll never find a perfect place like this again. It’s,
Client: uh, yeah, this is perfect because it, um, uh,
it meets other needs, like being with my mom for a while before she at some point won’t be there anymore. Um, another, another interesting thing is I don’t have to, um, to care of my, uh, heating being cutting wood and. Make sure my stove keeps burning. [00:25:00]
Todd: Mm-hmm.
Client: Um, it’s a lot more comfort. There’s a toilet here, which I don’t have in my van.
There’s a shower here, which I don’t have in my van there, a fridge here, which I don’t have in my van. So yeah,
Todd: starting to sound. Very perfect in a way. Mm-hmm. That’s what I love about perspective, which is all we’re playing with here is, um, with this perspective, you’re in heaven and that other house that was almost there, like looked so perfect.
That was just a image passing by. Yes. Mm-hmm. Until the next one or until the next reality opens up. From that field of all possibilities. Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:26:00] And I find I’m more in touch with that field of all possibilities when I am enjoying where I am. Mm-hmm. At the moment and when I’m feeling sad or disappointed.
Then I, I don’t see the possibilities as much. I don’t feel them as much. It’s a interesting thing, like the more I feel like I have what I’m wanting, the more I get what I want also kinda strange.
Anyway, thank you for this work. Really, really nice. Anything more to add from your side before we. Close.
Client: Um,
it’s interesting to see, um, since I’ve been doing the work for a while, that a situation [00:27:00] like this, I can still feel it the way I just explained, but it doesn’t take so much time anymore and it’s, um. It’s more like almost a natural flow. Like you really believed something would happen and it doesn’t. So there is a moment of grief, which is natural, I think, and then, but it doesn’t actually, maybe that’s the difference.
It doesn’t really turn into suffering. It’s just grief and it, and then at some point, because of having done the work, I think for, for quite a while, it, it shifts really quickly towards that field of possibilities again.
Todd: Yeah. It’s beautiful. Yeah. Sometimes I think grief is just love. Um. Mm-hmm. You know, I just, I, if someone dies or I don’t get the place that I was liking, it’s really, I just.
I fell in love with that place. Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] And so it comes out as grief for a moment because I was holding onto it a little longer than I needed and things changed. But what the work allows me to do so gently is to just where I was going like this, just, just let it. B, let it go. And now I can still love, but without the, any stickiness or attachment that makes it stressful and feels like grief.
Mm-hmm. So yeah, it’s just the little low of life. Oh great. Oh, okay. Not that one. And then, mm-hmm. Here’s something else and great. And then, okay. For a little while or not, or you know, and it’s just this, a gentler. Flow of up and down instead of all the way up and all the way down and like, oh gosh. And oh wow.
Like I’m a [00:29:00] football of situations and cir circumstances when I’m like that. But here it’s, yeah, I’m still in the flow of it, but it’s not as, um, dramatic maybe. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I love like how, like you said, how quickly. That can shift in doing the work, and part of it is you’ve been doing the work for a while, so you’re used to that process of letting go.
But just to go, come full circle on the emotional heart level, where you start, where you started, where is that stand now? After a few minutes of, of playing with this?
Client: Um, I’m not sure yet because now I’m in this atmosphere, so now it feels totally caught up with my mind, I dunno, in an hour or tomorrow or so. But [00:30:00] I, uh, I actually trust the process. It’s gonna be fine. It’s, uh, I think it’s really going well, smooth.
Todd: That’s the way it works for me too. Like I, I get caught up in the session, I get caught up, like my heart catches up to my wisdom and it feels great.
Um, and then I have to go back, back out and test it and we’ll see. We’ll see. In real life I might still, my heart, still in my, not be all the way caught up then. Okay. Maybe it just takes. Seeing it a few more times and then it’s fully done. Uh, maybe it requires doing another piece of work. Sometimes there are different thoughts that are connected.
Um, but many times I find it just a matter of time like, okay, I got the idea now, and then I just have to see it again in different situations. And I, I re, I remember the session and then it just starts to, um, [00:31:00] become. It just, it, it sort of falls into place. It’s a, it’s a slow Yes. Click. That happens. Cool.
Well, thank you for that window into your, into your heart. I appreciate it very much.
Client: Thank you.
Todd: If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the open sessions page, and there you can see the upcoming schedule. You can sign up, you can join in, and these are small, intimate. Groups. We have a maximum of eight of us at a time, seven participants and myself, and it’s a great chance to listen to the work, to ask your questions about the work and to actually do the work with me.
And while you’re at the work as meditation.com, I also encourage you to look at my virtual retreat schedule every [00:32:00] season, winter, spring, summer, and fall. I have a virtual retreat. Which is over a weekend, two days. And during those retreats, uh, we have a lot of sessions available. So every two hours we have a session, a two hour session, then we have a one hour break, two hour session, one hour break, and it goes through the day and night.
And so it means whatever time zone you’re in, you can come in, join us for as many sessions as you like. Out of the comfort of your home and basically have a retreat. Um, and this is a great way to start the year. It’s a great way to, um, start every season of the year, and you can find that at the work as meditation.com under virtual retreats.
Next, I’m gonna read one of my newsletter articles called How to Do the Work when There is More Than One Emotion.
Sometimes emotions are layered. One on [00:33:00] the other, like graffiti paint, how to do the work with layered emotions. I sometimes find that one emotion, uh, more than one emotion is there in a stressful situation. For example, line one of a judge or neighbor worksheet that I wrote looked like this. I’m angry and sad.
Dad because he didn’t download the photos. This was an actual situation for me. I had been scanning all of my mom’s family photos, which involved a lot of work and money, and after doing a lot of those and sending them to my dad, he didn’t seem that enthusiastic. Um, and one day I was talking on the phone, I asked him if he had downloaded the latest photos, which I was kind of excited about.
He said no. And eventually it became clear that he just didn’t really even care. He didn’t want to, wasn’t planning to, and that’s when I felt that mix of emotions. It was [00:34:00] some anger there and there was some sadness there. Of course, I could write both of these emotions on my line, one statement as I did just a minute ago, but I sometimes like to look even closer and.
Here’s how or what I do when I experience more than one emotion in a situation, I often look at each emotion separately. Emotions are extremely intelligent things. They don’t happen randomly. They are sensitive. Even you could say subconscious, and they’re gauges of what I’m thinking and believing. So each emotion has a different story to tell.
Anger has something to say and sadness has something to say, and sometimes it’s the same thing. Sometimes it’s different. So it’s often interesting to look, when I look, I can often uncover what is really bothering me so that I can bring that inquiry. So to do this, [00:35:00] I put myself mentally back in the situation.
In this case, I was driving and talking to my dad on the phone and I remember him not wanting to download the pictures that I worked so hard to scan. And then I feel the emotions and I look at them one at a time. The first one is anger. So I ask the anger itself, what is the thought that’s causing this feeling of anger?
Where is this anger coming from? What is as if the anger could speak? What would it say? As I sit with it, I see that the thought connected to the emotion, that anger is he is ungrateful for my efforts. This makes me really angry. So that’s the thought I’ve identified, the thought that’s coming along with the emotion, and always that’s the case.
When I feel an emotion I. There’s a thought connected to it. And when we’re doing the work of Byron Katie, we start with the emotion and then look for the thought, and then question the thought. So with the anger thought, here’s here’s, [00:36:00] uh, sorry, with the anger feeling, the thought that came along with it for me was, he’s ungrateful for my efforts.
The second emotion is sadness, same situation, but this time I also noticed some sadness. So. I asked the sadness, what is the thought that’s causing this feeling of sadness? What’s the thought connected to this feeling? And this time a different thought comes up. He doesn’t care about me and this interpretation makes me feel sad and dejected.
He just doesn’t, he doesn’t give, you know, he just doesn’t care. So same situation has given me two different. Emotions and each emotion has given me a different thought. I can now take these two different thoughts and put them on two different judger neighbor worksheets. The reason there [00:37:00] are two different emotions in this situation is that there are two different things bothering me.
They’re connected and working on one may help unravel the other, but working each one separately can allow for. Full attention on each one. If there are two crying babies in the room, it’s valuable to hold each one separately because their needs may be different. One may need food or the other may need a diaper change.
So here’s the line, one for two different worksheets on the same situation. Line one of worksheet one. I’m angry with dad because he is ungrateful for my efforts. So that’s the anger at worksheet worksheet two, line one. I’m saddened by dad because he doesn’t care about me. That’s the sad worksheet. As I, as I question these separate thoughts, one after the other, I’ll be addressing each anger, anger, uh, each emotion, anger, and then sadness in turn, [00:38:00] each gets its day in the sun.
And I have to say, I wrote line one and just shared you there. I’m angry with dad because he’s ungrateful. For my efforts, but then I would actually fill in the whole judge your neighbor worksheet. I want him to change. I, he should do things. I need him to do things, and he is, you know, my thoughts about him and I don’t ever want him to do things.
I’m gonna fill out all of that for worksheet one on anger. Then I’m gonna go through the same process. Fill out a whole worksheet on the sad worksheet. He doesn’t care about me. So this is a very thorough approach. But if it’s something I care about, and if I really want to get close to my emotions and what I’m, uh, what’s being presented from inside, then this gives me a, an opportunity to do that.
Listen to your emotions. Emotions are there to educate you. Byron Katie often talks about going to the school of you, as she calls it. These emotions can teach you [00:39:00] a lot if you listen to them. At the heart of every emotion is a particular thought that is causing it. If you listen, you can identify the thoughts that are closest to what is really bothering you in any situation, and when you do the work on these, they have the greatest chance of touching you and changing your innermost perspective.
Want to improve your ability to listen to yourself. Join my Inquiry Circle community by taking the Work 1 0 1 course, and I would love to support you in this process. So I’ll end with a quote from Byron Katie from her book. Question Your Thinking, change the World. A feeling is like the mate to a thought appearing.
They’re like a left and a right. If you have a thought. If there’s a simultaneous feeling and an uncomfortable feeling [00:40:00] is like a compassionate alarm clock that says, you’re in the dream, it’s time to investigate. That’s all.
So thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Share it with a friend, post something on social media. Leave a review for the podcast wherever you listen to your, uh, podcasts. And stop by the work as meditation.com to get my newsletter or to participate in open sessions like the one you heard here today.
You’ll also find hundreds of articles on the work conspiring Katie, as well as information about Inquiry Circle, my ongoing practice group and the work one-on-one course and other courses that I offer, including the virtual retreats that I mentioned earlier. So explore, put some time into learning the work and practicing the work, and I think you’ll find it to be [00:41:00] a huge support.
And all the things that can come your way as your living life. So thanks for listening, and until next time, have a great week.
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