Managing Overwhelm: Applying The Work of Byron Katie When Your Mind Jumps Between Situations

Client: How do you do the work? Like with, uh, it’s not [00:04:00] a recurring situation, but it’s something like I feel in different situations. So how do you, like if you’re, if. It’s like, it’s weird because it, it tries to jump from one situation and you try to focus on that one, but it also happens in several different things.

So it’s like the mind doesn’t focus on that specific one, but it also, it, it like goes back to the corner or of like, everything is that way. So you kind of get lo I feel like I kind of get lost in the general stuff of it too. So it’s kinda weird because it goes back from one situation to many and then back to one situation, and at the end it feels like too big or something like that, so,

Todd: mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My experience doing the work over the years has been that [00:05:00] it’s harder to work the general stuff. Uh, it’s, it’s harder, uh, because it’s so general. It’s hard to know what you meant, or it’s hard to know. It’s, it’s very, it’s too big as you just said. Um, and what I’m hearing from you is that when you try to focus on one situation, it, uh, it, the mind thinks it’s too small, and so it goes back out to the other generalizations or to the, to the other examples of it, other situations.

And I think that’s somewhat normal. There is a, there’s a communication between general and specific. And actually both are, are valuable, general, and specific. Um, but the anchor point for me is the specific, uh, so my mind will go [00:06:00] out to the general, but. When I notice that, I’ll bring it back to the specific.

Um, and so as I’m doing the work, I’m going maybe a little bit back and forth between general and the specific, but I keep coming back to the specific, back to the specific. That’s where my point of reference is, and that’s when it, um, that’s where it becomes clear to me what I’m talking about. Now, I have noticed what you also say is this gen, this, this.

Situation, the stressful feeling can come up in different situations, and I do notice my mind going to different situations and I have done the work that way effectively, where I will start in one situation and answer how I react in that situation. Then my mind goes to another situation and I. Explain how I react in that situation.

And then it goes to another [00:07:00] one, and I explain how I react in that situation. And I might do two or three or four of these, and that also works for me. Uh, and then I would go back to who would I be without the thought? And I would be, who would I be without the thought in this situation, in that situation, in that situation, and in that situation.

And why not? It’s like almost like doing four pieces of work at the same time. Um. As long as your mind can hold it, as long as it doesn’t get confusing for you, as long as it doesn’t get overwhelming for you, um, why not? Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s a way to do it. But the most, like, the, the essence of it is finding at least one situation.

And, and if you can stay in that one, then that, that is the primary anchor point. But sometimes it’s not enough. The mind, you know, every situation’s different. I just don’t like to make [00:08:00] rules about how to do the work. Uh, I just like to, to try it out and to experiment and. And so what I find is many times I’m only doing one situation like micro focus and it blows my mind.

Other times I’m doing what we just described of three or four situations and, but we’re all, it’s all on the same topic and that’s amazing. Um, and I’ve done also a completely general stop topic, even though I often say. Look for the specific, I’ve done it on completely a general thing and that was amazing.

So there’s no right or wrong way with this, uh, but I. That, that’s, those are the things to like play around with and see what works for you. And each situation is different. Um, but my tried and true, like the one that I use more often than any of the other is picking one situation and being really [00:09:00] specific and focused on that one, but doesn’t fit every, every sit doesn’t fit every time I want to do the work, and I’m willing to be flexible with that.

So I don’t know if those are a few thoughts. Any, anything connected to that or anyone else want to share? Any, any thoughts as well? Uh, yeah, Marika,

Client 2: um, when Edwin asked that question, I thought, that sounds to me like when you are answering question three and answering which images, uh, you see when. When you, it’s, it’s kind of the same to me.

I’m not sure whether Edwin, whether you meant that, whether it could be the same or not.[00:10:00]

Todd: Yeah, thanks. But the point is really good, Marika, because that is one way that, that I’m almost. Looking at more than one situation. At the same time, when I’m looking at the images that happened from the past, for example, um, so I might be working something with my partner, but then something’s coming up [00:11:00] from my father or something like that, or something, some past thing, and they’re, they’re really the same.

But the main thing I’m focusing on is the situation with my partner, but it’s touching back on some of these old images. So in a way, I’m working. Father issues is by working the, the partner issues. Um, and I think that’s, that’s another piece of it, Edwin, is that when you work one, just one, you are working those others.

So you don’t have to literally go through and do each piece of work separately. You can, you don’t even have to do it. Um, like when you’re working them all together in one at one time, you can, but. Just working. The one situation is probably going to touch all of these other situations automatically. And my experience, many times I’ll do a piece of work on some small thing, you [00:12:00] know, like it could be work, doing the work on something that frustrated me about my dog or something.

Really, it’s just something, one little situation and suddenly. The way I’m interacting with one person in my life, changes, or another person or another, situa, a lot of different things start changing because I’m seeing new ways of interacting just with my dog, for example. You know, it’s, I mean, that’s a typical type of thing, but you might be working on your mother and you notice your relationship with your, your friend changes or your wife changes, or your, your child changes or all those things.

So they’re all connected. Um, so anyway, that’s the, that’s just an addition to what, um, what we’re discussing here. Yeah. So anything is that, uh, is that making sense or any more questions, Edwin, about that

Client 3: I could maybe Yeah. Add Oh, sorry.

Todd: Go

Client: ahead Sarah. No

Todd: worries.

Client 3: Yeah, sure. [00:13:00] If you want to, like, I just had an, an, an example for my.

My own from my own work it seems. Uh, today I, uh, I did the work. I woke up with a, a memory on my, uh, on the father of my first boyfriend. Like we had a long relationship and I was in touch with him for a long time, and I grew up without a father, so I had, I.

And he died like many years ago, and I was on the other side of the world, so I wasn’t there. And all of a sudden this morning I woke up with this sense of missing him and uh, and it was four in the morning and I got up. Like I, I was kind of wanting to push it away, but I thought like, let’s do the work on it.

So I miss him. And it was really wonderful. Like, um, I was really stunned by the, by the outcome because, um. [00:14:00] I usually have this sense when going back to, to memories with, with people, uh, even old boyfriends or, or people that died or, or, or whatever. That it’s really like I cannot really have the fond memories.

There’s always pain connected to, with, with me. Um, and I know not everybody has that, but, but I do have it and. I, I realized like without the thought, I, I miss him. I could really re-experience the, the memories and really feel gratitude and, and joy, which is really like, wow, this is also how it can be. So it, it goes back to many situations, uh, actually, and, and so it was really, really wonderful for me to, to, to see that.

Todd: Hmm. Yeah. So

Client 3: it kind of fits and it’s not fully, but, but I [00:15:00] think it, it fits. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. That, that’s, that’s my experience. I do the work on one thing and it, uh, it, it changes my experience with other things. It, it just, uh, like it gives me a new way of. Experiencing something. And when I experience it in this situation, it may naturally change how I experience other situations.

Um, so yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Sarah. Thank you.

And Edwin, were, um, were you gonna say anything more, I guess I was asking you, uh, also like, is there anything else uh, that. Is that any more questions connected to this topic?

Client: Yeah, uh, well, not a question specifically, but I was like asking because I feel like I wasn’t doing the work right if that happened because like, I feel disconnected from, from a specific [00:16:00] situation and jump into several different ones.

So, uh, I didn’t want to get out and explore more out of that situation because I was afraid I was. I’ll stop doing the work, you know? Yeah. By just going too general and not actually getting to that part. But at the same time, I couldn’t figure out a way to like actually do the work and go back to that situation without seeing like hundreds of different situations where the same thing happens in my mind.

So, mm-hmm. Yeah, I was confusing. Yeah.

Todd: So it’s, it’s a really, it’s a good point because it’s a delicate, it’s a delicate balance and, um. You, you can feel it when you’re out of the work. Like you’re not quite answering the questions now, you’re just sort of daydreaming or you’re just kind of moving into, um, almost just, I.

Stories, um, and, and reliving those stories a bit. And it feels different than answering the question, how do I [00:17:00] react when I believe this thought or who would I be without this thought? When you’re answering that question, that’s what the work is. But within that, there can be some freedom that if the mind, you know, I’m asking a question, it’s an open-ended question, my mind’s gonna come up with something.

Probably unexpected. So I’m going to follow that and and see where it goes. But if it starts going far afield and you can kind of feel that, then, then I’ll gently come back. And my preference is my starting point. My starting point was I had one situation. And so let me keep coming back to that, like that’s my reference point.

And so even if I’m working, even if a few other situations pop up, I’m gonna keep coming back to this main situation as my main reference point. Um. That will keep me on track so I don’t get lost. Um, because if you feel like you’re lost, [00:18:00] then it doesn’t feel quite like you’re doing the work anymore. Just feels like I’m lost, I’m lost in space, and there’s a lot of images and, and that isn’t, doesn’t really, it’s not as effective.

Um, so there’s a fine balance in there. Yeah, I think it’s a really good point, but we don’t have to be rigid about it at, at the, at the same time, um. If the mind goes to some other situations, fine. If the mind goes to something general, fine, but keep coming back. Keep coming back to the specific one that you started with and, and the beauty of doing that is you’ll have this kind of dialogue between your specific situation and other situations or your specific situation and something more general.

And when you’re having this back and forth dialogue between the two, it gets clearer and clearer and clearer in your specific situation and in the more general [00:19:00] or other situation. So you can’t do it wrong. Keep exploring. But notice if you feel like you’re starting to get out of the work, then just notice it and come back to what you’re sure is the work and start from there.

Again, start afresh and then see where the mind goes. But. That’s the, that’s the feeling for me. It’s like a gentle, easy, uh, uh, way of holding it. But I am giving some preference to the specific situation that I started.

Client: Hmm. And now following that up, can you do the work on a specific feeling like rather than like a stressful situation, like can you do it on a feeling end?

Maybe put it on a situation like the way you’re mentioning there, would that be like effective at all?

Todd: Um, it depends what you mean by that. Uh, yes. Basically a stressful feeling. [00:20:00] I. Basically a stressful thought and stressful feeling are two sides of the same coin. So on one side is the feeling, the other side is the thought.

The, the thought is like what happens in the mind? The feeling is what happens in the body. Uh, kind of it’s like emotion and thought. They go together. They’re two sides of the same coin. And so usually what happens is I notice. Stress first as a feeling. Oh, I feel sad, I feel angry. I feel, I feel whatever it is.

Nervous. Um, there’s a feeling there. First, that’s the alarm clock that says, okay, time to do the work. And so can you do the work on a feeling? Um, it’s kind of hard to know what, what that is, uh, like a feeling. Okay. I’m angry. You could do the work on I’m angry. Is it true? And, [00:21:00] and see where that goes.

Nothing wrong with that. Try it out. Um, but more often than not, the feeling is just the physical or emotional experience of a thought. So since they are together, since the feeling and the thought are together, and they’re the same thing, then what I do is I use the feeling I. To let me know that there’s a thought.

Then I find out what that thought is. Then I question the thought, and then when, as I question the thought, the feeling can change. Um, so every time I do the work, I’m doing the work on a feeling, but I’m using the thought as the, the, the point that I’m working on. You know, there are many modalities of working with stress, and some of them work with the emotion directly or with the physical directly.

And so by working with that, then the thought changes. So you know, it doesn’t really matter which side you [00:22:00] work with, but in the work of Byron Katie, we’re mainly working with the mind, the mind. We’re working with the thinking that’s connected to the feeling. And when you. When you question the thinking, the, the feeling changes, but, but it does work reverse.

You know, you can, you can do something to the feeling and then the thinking changes. Um, but that’s, that’s a different process, not, not necessarily the work of Byron Katie. But the short question, short answer to your question is yes, if you want to, and you, you want to ask yourself, uh, I am sad. Is it true?

Go for it. I’ve done that and it can be very interesting. I thought I was sad and I actually wasn’t, or I was only 1% sad and 99% not sad and, and I thought I was a hundred percent sad or so you can, you can work the that as well, but it’s kind of a secondary thing for the work of Byron Katie. Normally the feeling is just saying, Hey, there’s something [00:23:00] going on in my emotions.

What am I, I must be thinking something that’s causing this emotion. ’cause emotions and thinking are connected. So what am I thinking? What’s causing me to, to, to have this emotion? Oh, it’s because he lied to me. Oh, okay, great. Now I can work with the, he lied to me thought and then see what I find, um, in that process.

If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the open sessions page. And there you can see the upcoming schedule. You can sign up, uh, if you haven’t signed the release form, you can sign that there and join in to ask your questions and to do the work with me.

It’s a great way we come together. It’s only seven people maximum per session, and you’re welcome to just come and listen. You’re also welcome to participate and [00:24:00] we never know where these sessions will go, so come on down and sign up for being a participant in the open sessions. While you’re at the work as meditation.com, I also encourage you to look more closely at the course that I’ve created called The Work 1 0 1.

I’ve been running this course for 10 years. Uh, it has improved and gotten subtler over the years. It, uh, is really a course in stress reduction, stress management, if you will. And, uh, you can read all about it and see if it’s a fit for you because. It’s a way to begin a practice of the work of Byron Katie.

It’s a 45 lesson course. It takes nine weeks to complete, and it’s something that’s very practical. You’re gonna be doing your work during this time, and you’ll also be a part of my community called Inquiry Circle Circle, where you’ll get a lot of support and a lot of [00:25:00] extra, um, uh, welcoming as you’re participating in this course.

Next I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles called The Work is Like Learning a Language

Construction on the Grand Hotel in Kal in British Columbia, Canada began in 1912, but it was never completed. It’s one thing to have a vision, it’s another thing to develop something fully. And I include here in the actual, uh, article A, a picture of the structure that still stands there. It’s this concrete structure.

You can see the, the forms where the windows would go, but it never got past that stage, and that was 19 and 12. Almost everyone stops at, I get it. This is the vision stage. We, humans are really good at coming up with ideas. For example, I’m going to learn French. [00:26:00] We’re really good at imagining what it’ll be like to have mastered French and to use it at any time.

We’re not so good at putting in the time to get from point A to point B. We have the vision. We see how good it will be. We take a few steps and realize this is a long-term project and give up. We move on or we get distracted. It’s natural. That’s what we humans do. But success comes quickly too. I personally have been studying French since 2017, just doing about 30 minutes a day.

I started with online apps and courses, and now I meet one-on-one with an excellent French teacher twice a week. And it’s amazing how little by little I’ve made progress. It’s slow, but it doesn’t take as long as you think to make significant prog progress. So why am I talking about this? The [00:27:00] same issue comes up when doing the work.

We humans, we want a shortcut. We want it to be enough to just get it when doing the work. Oh, I get it. It’s a recognition of the vision, but it’s not a substitute for actually taking the steps to realize the vision in daily life. Here’s one way it shows up. It’s very common when doing the work to think, oh, I worked that one before, or I should know this by now.

I’ve worked it already. This is like saying, I’ve seen the word in French for house before. I should remember it. What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I remember it? But the mind doesn’t work that way. If you want to learn French and you wanna learn the French word for house. I’m gonna need to hear that word a lot of times in different contexts.

It’s the repetition that starts to build the memory. [00:28:00] When enough, uh, easy repetition without beating myself up is completed. Then the neural network is built, and I can easily access the word Ong house anytime. It’s the same with the work. I may have trouble saying no, for example, so I pick a stressful situation where I had trouble saying no, and I do the work on my stressful thoughts.

This first pass gives me some clarity and I start to get it fantastic. I say I’m done, but that was just the beginning. In all likelihood, I will be presented with a new situation again soon where I once again am unable to say no. When that happens, I may think, oh, I already did the work on this. I should know how to do this already.

This cuts short the learning process. Now, instead of seizing a wonderful new opportunity to take my understanding to a new level, I [00:29:00] end up judging myself and feeling frustrated that I don’t know it already. I forget that in order to get something into my muscles and bones, I need more than just one exposure to it.

When I study my French using an app, I usually, uh, listen to each lesson about five or six times until I became very familiar with it, until it became so familiar to me that it felt natural. This was slower even than my app recommended, but it worked so well for me. I may be slow to learn, but once I’ve built a new structure of knowledge, I can go away from it from a for a long time, and it’s still right there at my fingertips.

So when I do the work, I don’t worry about whether I’ve already done this piece of work already. I just dive in and do it again. I’m not stopping at I get it, or I already did this. I’m building a complete structure in my mind. Why would I [00:30:00] stop halfway? How this looks in practical terms, there are two main ways this shows up for me.

One, working a judge your neighbor worksheet thoroughly. When working through a judge your neighbor worksheet, I could easily stop doing the work. After I question my line one statement after that piece of work, I often do get it quite nest, quite nicely. Instead, I usually take several weeks to question each statement on my worksheet, even if it is redundant.

In fact, it is the redundancy that I appreciate. The mind learns through repetition. Also, each statement that I wrote on my worksheet reveals another flavor of my stressful thinking. Doing the work on each line often reveals new insights related to the main topic. It’s amazing how many new and interesting insights I get, even when working basically the same subject over and over again [00:31:00] with each piece of my worksheet.

Slowly it becomes more and more clear. It becomes a part of my muscles. Secondly, the other way that doing the work kind of on like in, in terms of making this a practice and not just stopping at, I get it comes up when I’m doing the work on similar situations again and again. There are certain situations that come up again and again for me, and I’ve done the work on them in the past often, many times, but I still get triggered when faced with them in real life.

This just means that I may have a handicap in this area, and therefore I need even more exposure to the work in this area. This is the time to be extra patient with myself. If I got triggered again, no matter how many times I’ve done the work on similar situations, it means that I’m still not getting it, even though my inte will tell me that I get it.

So the [00:32:00] proof is in my reaction. If there’s a reaction, it means something inside of me still doesn’t get it. Something inside of me is still getting triggered, and so something inside of me still needs to do the work. It doesn’t matter how many times I’ve done it before. This is what practice is for. It’s for creating something new.

The intellect on the other hand, is for understanding what’s already there. Practice is for building something from scratch, creating a new structure where there was nothing before, and that has always been done through repetition. The key lies in understanding that repetition is necessary in the process of relearning how to see the world and in giving as much time as it takes without pressure to get it done.

When I hold this attitude of infinite patience with the process, I get out of my own way and I can really dig in and make some progress. Join us for [00:33:00] deep practice. The work 1 0 1 is my in-depth online course for diving into the work and making it more of a practice. You ought to, you will get a chance to test this, this idea of slow, steady practice in the course, and you’ll gain a lot of understanding of how to do the work in the course.

Join us if you’re interested in building something new, and I’ll end with a quote from Byron Katie, the founder of the work. This is from her book, loving What is When Practiced For a while, inquiry takes on its own life within you.

So thanks for listening and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Share it with a friend, post it on social media, or leave a review wherever you happen to be listening to this podcast. And don’t forget, you can listen on the work as meditation.com or on [00:34:00] any of the other platforms, including, uh, apple, uh, including, uh, Spotify, including many other platforms are available, uh, in all of these.

And also stop by the work as meditation.com to get my newsletter to participate in open sessions like the one you heard today. And you’ll also find hundreds of articles there on the work of Byron Katie, as well as information about the Work 1 0 1, virtual Retreats, inquiry Circle, um, our online community for doing the work.

Private sessions, uh, the Living with Money course, the Finding the Door to Inquiry Book, and other programs that I offer. So thanks for being here with me, and until next time, have a great

[00:35:00] week.