Messy Kids and Feeling Stuck (Stress Management and Inner Work for Highly Sensitive People)

Client: [00:00:00] And I have a recurrent stressful situation where she leaves like toys all over the place and stuff all over the place, and he, he’s getting hurt with them. Like it’s hitting himself with stuff that he shouldn’t be playing because they’re not toys at all. So, um, actually today just happened that she left the tripod.

Downstairs and, and he just hit himself with it and he got a little bit of caught in the eye, so I’m like, Ugh. I’m frustrated with her because she’s not like putting the stuff back when she grabbed it. 

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around. You never know where we start.

We always end up a little more with a little more wiggle room when we do this process. I’m Todd Smith, and on the program today, [00:01:00] a participant does the work, and when I say the work, I mean the work of Byron Katie, which is a way of questioning what you think. This participant does the work on a very everyday kind of situation.

His, uh, 12-year-old daughter didn’t put a tripod away after using it, and, uh, and his 2-year-old son tripped over it and hurt himself. So the thought he’s questioning is she should have put the tripod back. I’ll also read my newsletter article. Uh. Called what to do when you feel like you’re making little progress in your work.

So let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie together. As I mentioned, it’s just a very simple and powerful way to question what you think and look for ways of seeing a situation that are often very different than the way you were originally seeing it. So we’ll start with the open session recording, [00:02:00] which as always is unedited and you will find the, just the normal, everyday, uh, experience of doing your work and I hope you enjoy it.

Client: Okay. So my situation is with my daughter, like, you know, I have, I have a 12-year-old daughter. An almost 2-year-old son, which is obviously just growing up and learning. And I have a recurrent stressful situation where she leaves like toys all over the place and stuff all over the place and he, he’s getting hurt with them, like it’s hitting himself with stuff that he shouldn’t be playing because they’re not toys at all.

So actually today just happened that she left the tripod downstairs and, and he just hit himself with it. I. And he got a little bit of caught in the eye. So I’m like, uh, I’m frustrated with her because she’s not like putting the stuff back when she grabbed it [00:03:00] and like living it there, like at risk for her son.

So yeah, I think I like to do it on that. 

Todd: Okay. Okay. So what is the, what is the should in this situation? She’s not putting the stuff back. What should she be doing? What’s your argument with reality here? 

Client: Well, the way I’m looking at it is that, um, she should put everything back where she got it from. ’cause we try to like, keep everything organized in places, obviously for his safety too, more than anything.

So what I feel like is she should, if she grabs something, she should have put it, she should put it back as soon as she finishes, like, working on it or doing anything with it. Okay. 

Todd: So. When you look at that situation with the tripod, um, she didn’t put the tripod back right. That was the mm-hmm. That was the whole issue.

Right. So she should have put that tripod back. Is that true?[00:04:00] 

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: Okay. And can you absolutely know it’s true. She should have put the tripod back.

Client: Hmm. Actually, no.

No. If I weigh it, like if I put that in a balance thing, then no. That’s a bit more than a yes. So I would go with no. Okay. 

Todd: So how do you react when you see that tripod there and your son got, he hit himself with it, got hurt and you think she should have put the tripod back and she didn’t.[00:05:00] 

Client: I get angry, I get frustrated. I feel like she should have done it.

Um. I go back to like all the times where she left stuff on the floor, just dropped it, didn’t pick it up and put it back where it was supposed to be. And I see her doing it again in the future. ’cause like that’s a constant thing that we’re, we have to like, kind of have to go through with her in this learning process is that she keeps on doing it So.

I can see that happening over and over again and like I feel frustrated ’cause it’s not, I try to tell her not to do it, but she keeps on doing it. So I don’t, I don’t have like, um, I. I feel powerless in the situation because I can’t [00:06:00] control that. She’s just like, I’m telling her to do it and she’s not doing it, and I feel frustrated because no matter times how many, no matter what, how many times I say it, she’s like not doing it.

So that’s really frustrating. So

Todd: how do you treat her when you think she should have put it back?

Client: I would blame her for what happened to my son for sure. Like she’s not at home right now, but I’m blaming her. In my mind, I’m putting everything. It’s her fault. Yeah. I’m not treating her Not nicely at all,

because I think she’s guilty of it. Like she’s responsible for it and she didn’t pick it up. So [00:07:00] I’m putting everything on her.

Yeah. I’m not treating her nicely at all.

Okay.

Todd: So who would you be in that same situation? I. Without the thought that she should have put the tripod back.

When you see your son got hurt.

Client: I wouldn’t be looking for who’s responsible for it. I would just like.[00:08:00] 

Interesting. What, what came to mind is that because I’m, I was blaming her for doing it, I was actually not paying that much attention to my son who was the one that got hurt. Hmm. So interesting. It looks like all the focus, all the focus went to her and blaming her and not taking care of him. So without the thought, I would just like focus fully on him and what happened to him and what needs to be done so he can feel better, like give him a little bit of treatment or something.

And

yeah, I wouldn’t even think about her at all. I would just think about the situation that just happened and like, pay attention to my son, which is the one, he’s the one who needs it right now, not her. 

Todd: Hmm.

So interesting to see how that thought she should have put it back [00:09:00] takes you away from the immediate need of the situation. 

Client: Yeah. I did a lot because all I did was like, look at him crying and I, I just, I just briefly see what happened and I didn’t even like, took enough time to calm him down. Obviously he was with his mom, so it was not that he was alone, but still I was not like giving him, like trying to calm him down a little bit or doing anything.

I was just like, that was like fuel for me to think about my daughter and blaming her even more. Then whatever happened to him. So

Todd: really good to see. Yeah. 

Client: Yeah. It’s like, 

Todd: so,

so we’re seeing again, the effect of the thought she should have put it back. It’s pretty clear. So let’s consider, [00:10:00] could the thought. Could there be a turnaround to this thought that may be truer? She should have put it back.

Client: The one I see. I should have put it back. 

Todd: Okay. So how could that be as true or truer in this case with the tripod? 

Client: It’s true because I, I actually saw it there earlier and I didn’t put it back. So I can totally see that being 100% true. I don’t have to wait for her to do it. If I can do it, if I just see it there, I could just easily put it back so that, that’s definitely true.

And the same for other situations as well, like instead of I can let her know about it and then do it instead of waiting for her to do it and get, get frustrated with the situation over and over again. 

Todd: Right. [00:11:00] Especially if you want your son to be safe. 

Client: Right? Right. It’s about him, not her. Right. Right. And it doesn’t mean that we’re just like allowing her to throw anything and leave it around the house without any responsibility.

But the priority is our son. ’cause he’s the one that is learning how to walk and moving around the stuff in the house, which is always a danger for them being that small, 

Todd: right? Like you become the backup for her. She is like you ask her to do it, but if she doesn’t do it, then at least you can do it so that your son doesn’t get hurt.

And then while she’s learning to take that responsibility. 

Client: Right. And that makes me think of, um, [00:12:00] of that thing about leading by example kind of thing where you can tell somebody to do something, but if you do it, that’s gonna teach ’em how to do it also. And you never know. Maybe you don’t even have to ask next time and they’ll just do it 

Todd: right.

I mean, if you think about it, if you, if he’s, if, if you make it a big deal about who’s picking it up, then, then it becomes a big deal. Picking up the tripod becomes a big deal, and that’s what she learns. And, but if, if you just ask her, and if she forgets you pick it up, then she sees it’s not a big deal, then maybe it’s not a, it becomes not a big deal for her too.

Client: That’s really interesting. I never looked at it that way. I always went to like the negative side of things. Oh, you didn’t do it. You didn’t do it. That’s a really interesting one. 

Todd: Then it becomes like a power struggle, right? Like, you should do it. I told you to do [00:13:00] it. You’re not doing it now. It’s like a, it’s a struggle.

Client: Right? Right. 

Todd: So this turnaround shows an alternative. That you can play with. I should, I should pick it up from time to time when I see it. 

Client: Right. If, if I see it, there’s no reason for me not to do it 

Todd: right? 

Client: Like, if I don’t think about who put it there, and if I just see it, I, I just can grab it and put it back to its place and that’s it.

Right? 

Todd: And then that same leading by example, you’re thinking about your son. She sees you thinking about your son. She may start to think about. Son. 

Client: Right. And the 

Todd: reason for picking up becomes really clear instead of some kind of, uh, you know, like, like I said, power struggle. 

Client: Right. And she’s starting a teenager age right now, so she thinks it’s all about power and us [00:14:00] demanding her to do stuff.

So that makes a lot of sense too. Right, 

Todd: right. 

Client: Interesting. 

Todd: Right. So you can just step right into that trap, you know? Mm-hmm. Or pick it up and show the importance of safety for the little one. 

Client: Right.

Love that. 

Todd: So is there another turnaround she should have put the tripod back? 

Client: Well, she shouldn’t have to put the tripod back. It’s true because she didn’t, so that’s one true. 

Todd: You can argue with it all day long, but in the end, she still didn’t do it. Right. It’s in the past. You can’t control the past. It’s done.

It’s 

Client: gone. It’s, it’s exactly what happened. She didn’t put it back. That’s it. That’s the reality of it. And like she shouldn’t What could have 

Todd: been, [00:15:00] yeah, go ahead. 

Client: Like I was thinking that she shouldn’t because I, if I keep going back, like when I saw it, I could have made a different decision and pick it up and take it back to its place instead of waiting for her to do it.

So that’s another reason why she shouldn’t, ’cause I could have done it when I saw it right there. I had the chance to do it and I decided not to do it and wait for her.

So that makes sense too, too. 

Todd: How about another way I like to look at shoulds is on these turnarounds is like she shouldn’t have put it back should in the sense of like, she shouldn’t have. How is it understandable that she didn’t, like she shouldn’t have put it back. She, what? What was, what could have been going on for her?

That would make it hard for her to put it back or make it understandable when she [00:16:00] doesn’t. Um, just to see that point of view. 

Client: Hmm. It’s actually interesting because we were getting the camera ready for a game that I had last night, and we were kind of in a rush to get out, so we were charging the battery of the camera.

And we had to do like everything in a rush. And then we run outside. And then we came back home really late at night, like really late for them to go to bed. ’cause it was like almost 11:00 PM and they should have been in bed like since nine at least. So it was already late. So I was rushing her to go to bed as fast as she could.

So. That’s definitely a good reason for leave it there. She was not paying attention at that at all. She was just like trying to do what I told her to do, which was get a bed and we didn’t have time to like see things that [00:17:00] were dropped or anything like the tripod. It was just like a completely missed and all of us.

Todd: Yeah, so that makes it really understandable, like she didn’t even have the opportunity to put it back. You had to leave in a rush and then you came back. You had to go to bed. 

Client: Right. I didn’t look at it that way at all.

She didn’t have the chance. Yeah, you’re right. She didn’t, and I didn’t give her the chance either. Like I. I was just rushing her this morning, was a rush to, to get out of the house. So she was not, and that was not a priority at all. 

Todd: Right. And you never know. She may have even wanted to put it back, but, 

Client: oh, hold on, Todd.

I, I’m not Yeah. Listening to you. For some reason I lost my audio. You don’t hear [00:18:00] me? 

Todd: Okay. 

Client: Oh, 

Todd: I hear you. Okay.

Client: Sorry, just gimme one second. 

Todd: Okay.

Can you hear me? 

Client: Sorry, I can hear it now. Yeah, something happened to my speakers. Okay. 

Todd: Okay, great. No problem. So it was interesting how she didn’t have the opportunity either yesterday afternoon or last night or this morning, and you never know, uh, what she would’ve done if she had had the time. [00:19:00] Um, you never know.

So it’s like not a fair test. 

Client: Right. And I’m blaming her without a fair chance. You’re right. It’s, hmm.

And I can see that in my mind, being very judgmental because of what happened before. So I take that as, um. Some kind of like, or I already know what happened, so I already know what’s happening right now and what’s gonna happen tomorrow. So I’m not giving her a chance at all. I’m just judging her for all those things before she even tries.

Or I give her the chance to prove me wrong or do something different. 

Todd: Hmm. Which is exactly what teenagers all talk about. It’s not fair. You judge me on things I did in the past and you never gave me a chance. You know, like it’s, I can hear that same. Feeling coming from, from that age group, from anyone, but [00:20:00] especially that age group.

Client: Right. And she even mentions that sometimes it’s like, oh, but I do it sometimes and you don’t congratulate me for doing it because we’re just expecting her to do it and it’s not a big deal for her to do it. But when she doesn’t do it, then it’s a big deal. 

Todd: Right.

That’s interesting. They feel like she can’t win. Right. Right. No matter what she’s gonna lose gonna lose. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I’ll either get nothing or I’m going to lose, but I’m never gonna win. 

Client: Right. And I, I’m even, I, I notice that I’m even judging her without listening to her. Which I think is a bit more serious ’cause like with the tripod, I haven’t even talked to her yet because she’s at school and in my mind I’m already like saying a bunch of things and like I’m judging her for not doing it.

I’m just waiting her for to come back [00:21:00] home to let her know why she didn’t do it. And I’m already doing all these things in my mind, and she hasn’t even, she didn’t even get a chance to talk to me and the reason why she didn’t put it back, which is now we discover why that is. 

Todd: Well. So I love that way of looking at these should turnarounds, you know, she should have put it back turnaround.

She shouldn’t have put it back. Why is it understandable that she didn’t put it back? Then it’s like, so interesting what? What we found just now. Yeah. So let’s see. Is there another turnaround? She should have put it back.

Client: Already put, I should put it back. I’m not seeing any other, do you see any other one? 

Todd: Oh, let’s look at it. She should have put it back. Turned around. I [00:22:00] should have put it back and then she shouldn’t have put it back. And it doesn’t really look like there’s a turnaround to the other. So much it’s involved.

It’s just. Because it’s like, I should have put her back. Doesn’t really make sense. Yeah. Uh, um, yeah, I think that’s about it. Just two simple turnarounds there, but some really interesting examples. I. 

Client: Yeah, and some of them like lead me to, to the thought itself that I went back to it, you know, my thought of that, she should put it back.

Like questioning that thought alone. I think it makes a lot more sense too. ’cause I had the chance to do it and I didn’t do it. I do it so I could judge myself for not doing it too instead of her 

Todd: right. 

Client: But in my thought, it was just like, oh no, I’m not, I’m not gonna, I’m gonna save myself from this one.

And it’s all in her, when in reality it’s not so [00:23:00] 

Todd: Right. 

Client: It’s really interesting. 

Todd: And then in the end, you can see the innocence in both of you. You know, you both hurried away from the house, came back late, got up early, had to do something right away. So in, in everyone’s case. No one had a chance to put it back.

And so, yeah, your son got hurt, but it wasn’t, uh, like it’s almost, it’s, you can learn from it maybe for next time, but it’s so understandable that it happened. That’s all. Yeah. 

Client: And I can see how I, I even can see now how you can just let it pass. ’cause it’s just a tripod. It is not, it’s not a knife or something that he could like really hurt himself with.

It’s, it’s made of plastic. It’s not really. He just probably just grabbed it the wrong way or something, but it’s not really a dangerous thing anyway, so, 

Todd: right. And [00:24:00] that’s part of that fight. You know, the mind will make it, see, this is more proof that you didn’t put things away. He got it, it exaggerates, he got really hurt, you know, even though it was not that bad of her.

It makes the mind, makes it bigger and then, um, and then uses that as the proof that. She’s really wrong and I need to really come down hard and like that, 

Client: right? And it makes it more weight to it. It puts more weight into the blame for her that I have in my mind. Oh, she’s more guilty. You see, it’s because of this, right?

Todd: That’s what we all do. You know, this is what countries do when it comes to war. They make the enemy out to be much worse than they are. They find the worst things and they exaggerate, and they make that really well known in the news, or they even make up fake things. Doesn’t matter, but they will. They will find something that will [00:25:00] make them have the justification to go in.

And attack on that country. So we all do the same thing in our own personal lives. We exaggerate. It’s just, yeah. So it’s good to see what the mind does and then, and then just see is it, is it really true? You know, is it necessary? Yeah, 

Client: I see it. Thank you. I really appreciate it. 

Todd: Yeah. Great little piece of work.

I love it. Some of sometimes these smallest little. Tripod on the floor. Situations are, they contain so much, they’re so, uh, valuable to work. So I look for those kind of situations when I’m living my life day to day. Uh, I’m, I’m waiting. What, what thing is going to just be that tripod on the floor that’s going to make me get upset somehow?

And. It doesn’t seem like a big deal, [00:26:00] but when I do the work on it, it shows me so much how I can live, how I can relate, how I can, you know, it just shows me options. So it’s a wonderful practice and it just goes to show that you don’t have to have something huge to do the work. It doesn’t have to be super big or serious.

Um. The work is just a way of looking at situations in different ways. So, yeah. And you know, there’s also, and kind of some underlying beliefs that can be questioned in this as well. Like, you know, um, she doesn’t do what I tell her to do, like that’s, that’s also in there. Um, or, or, um. You know, she ignores me or she doesn’t listen to me.

Those kind of, those kind of thoughts also address that power struggle. Um, but it’s a little more abstract. The underlying belief is on the more abstract level, the [00:27:00] tripod situation is like more concrete, almost easier to see because it’s so, like, you can touch it, you can, you know exactly what you’re talking about when you’re working it.

So

anyway, thank you for your work. If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you just heard, um, please go to the work as meditation.com and click on the open sessions, uh, link there and you’ll see the schedule of all the sessions coming up. You can join in and I encourage you to join in as a participant.

Um, that way we can, uh, you can do the work with me, ask your questions directly, and even if you don’t have a question. Feel free to join in, just to watch, just to be there, and you never know what kind of questions may come up, um, when you’re sitting there.

Next, I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles, and this one is called What To Do When You’re [00:28:00] Making Little Progress in Your Work.

Do you ever feel like you’re flapping your wings but going nowhere in your work? The feeling of no progress or no real progress? The feeling of not making progress can come up when doing the work of Byron Katie as it can in any other kind of situation. So what do you do when this happens to you? Let’s say you’re working on a big issue for yourself.

Maybe it’s a relationship, maybe it’s money, maybe it’s some big thing that just keeps getting you again and again and again, and you just feel like you’re not making any progress with it. You know, of course that the work is a process and it’s not just like, it’s not magic or something. It takes time. And especially with some bigger things, it can be, uh, an ongoing thing.

I know I’ve done the work for years on some issues, and I’ve watched slowly it [00:29:00] getting better, but it wasn’t like just one shot and I was done with it, but sometimes you feel like you’re reaching the limits of your patients, even when you know this. What can you do when this happens to you? The first thing to do is to stop.

If I feel stressed even about doing the work, it means that something isn’t working for me and I need to stop and check it out. My tendency, of course, is to keep on going and going and pushing forward and trying to make things happen. I think a lot of us have that kind of thing, um, whether not necessarily with doing the work, but with whatever it is that we’re trying to do, like that idea of forcing or pushing is common in, in, in all of us.

But that doesn’t work very well when doing the work of Byron Katie. Um, the work is about questioning stressful thoughts and seeing if any of them happen to unravel and you can’t force that [00:30:00] stressful thoughts let go on their own or they don’t. Um, but all I can do is open the invitation for this, and this takes a very gentle hold.

Sometimes I make the analogy of like, if you’re, if you have an. A bunch of string that’s knotted up and you start pulling hard on that string, it just makes it tighter and tighter. Knot. It’s actually harder to get it, get it undone, but if you hold it very loosely and just kind of pull loosely here and there, then oftentimes you can unravel the knot and it, it is not a problem anymore.

So when I’m doing the work of Byron Katie, if I push in any way to get results, then the whole system kind of backfires. Um, stressful thoughts are kind of like 2-year-old kids who are actually in a position of power. Like imagine a 2-year-old kid, but then imagine that they actually were in power, like they were the king or something.

Um, they’re not going to relinquish that power just because I tell them to. That’s [00:31:00] just not gonna happen. Um, so. They have to be invited. They have to be honored like you would honor a king. You know, it’s a 2-year-old king, but still a king. So you have to be invited, have to be honored, that they have to be listened to, and then they have to be given a choice and and feel like they’re in control somehow.

To discover why it is that letting go of something would be in their best interest. And then, uh, if they like what they see, they might let go. That’s the way I like to approach doing the work. It’s, it’s, it’s up to that little tantruming part of me that holds the knot of stress in me. I’m asking it to do this work, to ask these questions, to find these answers, and to see what it, what it sees.

But if I get, start getting impatient with this process, because part of me knows this should not be a problem and I should be over it and I all that, if I start getting impatient, [00:32:00] then um, it, it doesn’t work so well. And so what I need to do is actually stop for a moment because pushing is not going to get me anywhere.

The value of a, of a break. Um. If the big topic I’m working on and getting nowhere with is causing me frustration, one simple solution is to take a break from that topic for a while. You know, you might take a break for a good while, for a few months or something, or longer. Um, and I like to vary my topics anyway.

If I keep working the same topic over and over and over, it, it can get, um, it can get boring and it can end up feeling like I’m, I’m. Pushing again, ’cause I’m trying to get this one done and then I’ll move on to the next one. But I actually love to just do a little of this and a little of that. And sometimes switching to a less charged topic can give me the feeling of making progress.

Again, ironically, [00:33:00] insights gained doing some other unrelated work, often crosspollinate and inform my other work that sits dormant. So. I’ve had very cool insights and breakthroughs when I’ve actually switched to other topics because all topics are actually related to each other. So I’ve switched over to something that seems like not important.

I’ve left my big topic over here, put it on the side and started working on something else. And here I am working some tiny little issue over here, and an insight comes that affects this bigger issue. So they’re all connected. The real cause of impatience. So taking a break in action. Um, taking a break is an action that takes the pressure away from pushing, uh, and pushing to break through with an issue.

But a shift in how I see my work on this issue can be equally valuable in [00:34:00] reducing my impatience. And what I mean by that is that impatience comes from. Like not getting what I want, like lack of fulfillment, slow desire, a slow fulfillment of desire. And if I feel impatience when doing my work on any topic, I look for the hidden desire in myself.

I. Like, what is it that I’m wanting? What is it that, uh, I think I need here? Why am I so desperate to fix this problem? That’s where the push is coming from. And if I can identify that and question that, then the push inside of me may start to reduce and I may have a little more space for actually doing this work.

So answering questions like this will reveal motives, um, that I have for doing the work. For example, if I’m doing the work on money, then my motives might be, my motives for doing the work on money might be I want to be free of money [00:35:00] stress. So like that’s my. That’s my big goal, right? I want to be peaceful even when money is low.

That’s my, that’s my goal. I want to be like someone who I know who doesn’t stress about money, or I want to get over the stress of money so I can make more money. That might be my hidden goal there. I want to get over the stress of money so I can actually make more money. Okay. Or. I want my money work to be over.

These are all motives. They’re motives for doing the work on money, and you may have motives for doing the work on a relationship, on doing the work on any other kind of subject. When you identify some of these motives and question some of these motives, then it can take the pressure off and can reduce the feeling of impatience.

So these are wants that make me push myself to quote unquote, breakthrough and find insights from my work. These thoughts [00:36:00] cause impatience in me, and when I do the work, um, on them, then the impatience tends to diminish. So I like to do that from time to time. Just notice what my thoughts are. Why I am doing the work, what is my motive for doing the work?

Question them and find a more enjoyable way of doing the work with a whole lot less pressure. And I often find it ends up being actually more effective. ’cause I’m not pulling the knot, I’m not. Trying to make it work. I am holding it more loosely and that makes a big difference.

So join us for a virtual retreat. Uh, it’s another way to do the work with us. Uh, you’ll find these virtual retreats to be a lot of fun. We worked together for, um. Two full days, usually 48 hours and around the clock. [00:37:00] So we have two hours of sessions, uh, and then one hour of break, two hour session, one hour break, and it just goes like that around the clock.

And I facilitate as, as well as other, uh, members of my Inquiry Circle group. We all hold the space for each other to do this work, so join us for that. It’s a great way to. Get a little deeper into either one subject or to just gain a lot of experience in a short amount of time with doing the work. So here’s a quote from Byron Katie, and this is from her book, A thousand Names for Joy.

She is detached from all things in the sense that when they come, that’s what she wants, and when they go, that’s what she wants.