Overcoming Overwhelm: A Highly Sensitive Person's Inner Work on "Something's Going to Happen to End This Peace"

Client: Well, it’s, there’s an underlying stress. It’s kind of like sitting in the peace. And then while you’re sitting in the piece, you wonder how long that piece is gonna last. 

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around. I. I call it wiggle room because inside of all of us is a field that is actually free.

There’s always room to maneuver, always room to to be. And it’s just that the things look like they’re closing in on all sides, and it looks like that all your freedom has been taken away. But [00:02:00] inside, if you look, you’ll always find that wiggle room. That’s what this podcast is about, and we use a way of accessing that.

Freedom that is there inside by asking questions. And this process of asking ourselves questions and then waiting for the answers to come up inside is called the work of Byron Case. I’m Todd Smith, and on the program today, you will get to hear two different pieces of. The work being done, one person is questioning the stressful thought, something is going to happen to end this piece.

She’s sitting in a quiet, kind of peaceful place and she starts to think, uhoh, it’s not gonna last something. My mind’s gonna come in and start finding something, or there’s gonna be something. And so we actually work on this thought and it’s very interesting because it begins to redefine what is peace and what are the conditions for having.

And experiencing peace. [00:03:00] So that’s the first piece of work. Then the second piece of work is a completely different subject, different person doing the work on the thought. This software is annoying, and if you’ve ever had the thought that a piece of software was annoying, this work is for you. You will find a lot of interesting insights coming out of this as well as a lot of fun I think you’ll find as well.

And then finally I will be reading a, an article, uh, that I wrote called Circular Logic. Is it a bad thing When you’re doing the work? So let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie together. It is a simple, yet powerful way to question anything that you think, especially when you’re feeling stressed. Here’s the recording from our latest weekly open session.

As always, I share the unedited recording so that you can experience this work just as we did when we were sitting here together.[00:04:00] 

Client: Hey, so, um, my mind has been kind of. Quiet lately, and then I woke up this morning wondering why my mind was still quiet, and I keep having this background thought, well, something’s gonna happen, you know.

Todd: Yep.

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: The other shoe is gonna drop. Right. The other, and 

Client: that was the other thought I had, the other shoe is gonna drop, right? Yep. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that 

Client: was funny. 

Todd: Okay, well you wanna do a little work on that? 

Client: I’d love to. You guys okay with that? 

Todd: Okay. 

Client: Right. 

Todd: Yeah. Hello? You’ve been quiet. Quiet mind lately. And so something is gonna happen.

Is it true?

Client: Well, that’s interesting. I’m actually [00:05:00] hoping, hoping something will happen. Um,

Todd: my mind And did you mean like something bad? 

Client: No, no. The part of my mind that likes to solve problems is bored and it’s quiet. Mm-hmm. And so it’s hoping. Something will happen. And so that something, is it gonna happen? Is it true? I don’t know. So I can’t say yes. 

Todd: So let me ask, just back up a second. Is the thought that something is going to happen, uh, a stressful thought at all for you?

Client: Well, it’s, there’s an underlying stress. It’s kind of like sitting in the peace and then while you’re sitting in the peace. You wonder how long that piece is gonna last. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Client: Right. Okay. Like at some point I have to get up and then what? What’s gonna happen next? So there, so inside the piece is the potential for the end of the piece.

Yeah. [00:06:00] Yeah. 

Todd: Next. I got it. 

Client: Okay. 

Todd: So can you absolutely know it’s true that something is going to happen? There’s gonna be end to this piece.

Client: Hmm. No.

Todd: So how do you react when your mind is quiet and the thought comes in, something’s gonna happen?

Client: My first thought there is appreciate this quiet, which is already gone now that I’m panicking already, that it’s not gonna be there much longer,

and then an immediate mm-hmm. You know, and then it’s like, what could happen? Oh, you know, and then I just start making a mental picture [00:07:00] list of all the different things that could be happening next. And then I. Try to get back into the space of the piece.

Then at some point I just, you know, I’ll, I’ll do some work on it or I’ll laugh or I know I’ll just, I’ll remind myself that I can have some peace right now and I don’t have to make it happen, you know? ’cause then I start telling myself, oh, you know, the more I think about it, the more I’m gonna make something unpeaceful happen, which is that interruption to begin with.

And then I listen as the voices in my head argue with each other over. I should just forget about that and just sit there peacefully or whether I should look around to see if there’s something that I need to do. 

Todd: Yeah. Preemptively find out what’s, what needs to be taken care of. Yep. 

Client: Right, so, so how do you 

Todd: treat your, [00:08:00] how do you treat your peace when you think.

Something is going to happen right 

Client: at that moment. It’s gone. I mean, even if I’m laughing, it’s still, the piece itself is still gone, you know? Yeah.

And then, 

Todd: and how do you treat the idea or the possibility that the end, the piece is ending, or how do you, how do you treat the ending of the piece? Maybe that would be the right one. There’s, 

Client: there’s, um. A kind of a panicked attempt to regain the peace, and you can’t regain peace in panic, but the mind is like, no, no, I need to get back to that space.

Look, breathe. You know? And then, and then there’s still nothing happening. There’s in that moment that nothing unpeaceful is happening.

This is hard to describe, isn’t it? [00:09:00] Because it’s interesting. It’s not like words or anything. It’s more like a re a resignation. It’s not like a resolution. It’s not like a, it’s more of a resignation. I have to give myself up to this piece in spite of the fact that I can’t. No. How long it’s gonna last.

Todd: Right. There’s no security. Right, right. In that 

Client: and then I, and then I, my mind goes off to all the other times that I interrupted my own piece or didn’t hold, didn’t hold it.

And then I wonder. It’s ironic, 

Todd: but that is, sorry. I was just gonna say, it’s ironic that that is what, uh. What is already bringing you out of the piece is the thought that something is going to happen. Right. 

Client: And it hasn’t, it’s just a thought. [00:10:00] 

Todd: Exactly. Right. Exactly. 

Client: And then, um, and then I, I, I say, well, I’m just gonna go distract myself and I go do something else and then, you know, it’s done.

But. Then when I go back and think, well, I’ll go sit there and, and, you know, sit there and have that peace again, to me, the, the location, the situation, it’s like I’m trying to recreate something in the past instead of creating something in the present. Now I do, I can do that. I can re, you know, I can have peace at any moment.

It’s when my peace was interrupted by this voice that. This thought of this voice that is not wanting me to have the peace, that part of my mind, that doesn’t want it to be quiet. It’s not done solving problems. We gotta have a problem to solve. [00:11:00] Yeah. 

Todd: So how do you treat that part of your mind? 

Client: I tell it.

Well, I go through the, all of the different stages with it. First I just talk to it, ask it to be quiet. Then I tell it to shut up, and then I, um,

I ignore it. I just, and then lately what I’ve been doing is something a little different that was suggested. I just take that thought and that voice and I kind of. Pull it together and I set it down next to me and imagine it just kind of floating away from me. And that seems to work okay. But at that point, now it’s floating away and then I’m past that point of sitting there any longer and go do something.

Todd: Yeah. [00:12:00] So you’re treating it that part of you that. Likes to have something to chew on or have solved problems like you’re just in different ways you’ve described of pushing it away maybe harshly or maybe gently, but there’s a kind of like, get outta here. You don’t belong. It’s why 

Client: it’s an un, it’s an unwanted condition that I’m not, I’m not sitting in because when I have, when I do sit in it, the past is I sit in it and I try to hear it or I try to.

Give it some peace and, and it’s really smart, and it comes up with all kinds of things that, oh, yeah, I hadn’t thought of that, blah, blah, blah. You know, oh, that is a problem. I, you know, and then I’m, I’m using it. Then it’s like, oh, I got problems to solve again. Right? Instead of letting it just be quiet.[00:13:00] 

Or letting it talk and it, and you know, ignoring it doesn’t seem to last very long. 

Todd: It just gets louder. Right? Yeah.

So who would you be without the thought something’s going to happen to end this piece? 

Client: Probably be laughing. I.

It’d be quieter.

I have an example of that. Um, we have a neighbor within a block of us that just likes to have loud music partying sometimes until four 30 in the morning. And, um, the other night, I, I did. I just let it be there. I let the music be a part of my experience, and the next thing I know, I fell asleep and I slept through the night [00:14:00] and I wake up at four and it, it was still playing, but, you know, and my sleep was good.

I woke up rested, and then they started playing again last night. And the sheriff came and made them stop. And I didn’t call. I don’t do that. I don’t call the sheriff on people like that. ’cause this is California and you don’t, um, it’s not a, an open carry state, but you never know. Anyway, let me get back to this, the.

Music didn’t start. It had started and then the sheriff showed up at their house and then it, they didn’t start the mu, they didn’t start the music and I didn’t sleep as well. Mm-hmm. As I did the night that I just let the music be playing. Mm-hmm. And it is [00:15:00] really, really loud. It’s like 80 decibels in our house and they’re over a block away.

Todd: So it’s a good, it is a good kind of analogy or example, uh, experience that you’re 

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: Sharing here. So what, as, as you play with that, imagine what it would be like with your mind in that quiet state without this idea that something’s gonna happen to end this piece. 

Client: Is it, it just would, just would be there and I wouldn’t be,

it’d be like the chair in the room. I don’t have a whole, you know, there’s a chair in the room. I don’t have a whole lot of attention on it. I’m not fighting with the chair. 

Todd: Yeah, yeah. There’s like a problem solving part of my brain in the room, but I’m not, yeah, it’s not a lot of attention going there.

It’s just that it’s there and it’s ready if needed. [00:16:00] 

Client: And it’s noise and it doesn’t shut off and I don’t have to listen to it.

Okay. 

Todd: Okay. So how would you turn the thought around something is going to happen to end this piece, 

Client: to ah, something is gonna happen to start this piece. 

Todd: Huh. Okay. What could that mean? 

Client: Yeah, it means I can just simply allow it

and not judge it. Oh, that’s there kind of thing. I’m sure there are other noises that everybody has. I mean, got refrigerator noises and you know, air con air movement noises and. There’s always noises, 

Todd: all the Yeah. [00:17:00] Driven birds outside. They’re gonna, yeah, something. 

Client: Yeah. It’s just interesting that it would be

a specific noise. So without it there, there would have to be some something that actually brings that piece, which would be bringing it in like it’s a part of the environment.

Todd: How did that piece get there in the first place when your mind got quiet? Like did it like 

Client: It was quiet there. There was no noise and it was pretty, and I sat and I looked around and appreciated things. And then I had the thought, I wonder how long I can do this.

Todd: And it.

So if it happened once, what are the chances that it could happen again[00:18:00] 

Client: regularly? It could, I mean, yeah, it could become a pattern or it could just be never, I mean, 

Todd: yeah, the turnaround is something is going to happen to start this priest piece or to bring about this piece. 

Client: Mm-hmm. So I could, that could be acknowledge 

Todd: as, yeah. So if you try to stay in the. The busy non-PE part of things.

You only have to wait a little while that something’s gonna happen. 

Client: Mm-hmm. To 

Todd: bring about peace again, 

Client: I could be laughing about it and then just letting it play in the background. Yeah. And that will bring about peace. 

Todd: Exactly. 

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. So another turnaround. Something’s going to happen to end this piece.

Client: This may sound odd, but I’m [00:19:00] the only thing that could happen that ends this piece.

Todd: Okay. 

Client: That gives me, um, responsibility and power at the same time. It’s my peace. So the interruptions would be my interruptions. 

Todd: Yeah. The worst that could happen is that you happen, 

Client: right?

Hmm. I could just laugh at it. I could just laugh again. You know when the peace I. When I think my piece has been interrupted, there’s nothing outside of me that has the power to do that.

Todd: Right?[00:20:00] 

Yeah. It’s an interesting thought, like if your piece is interrupted, is it really interrupted? 

Client: Right. Who interrupted it me by judging it and then labeling it and then. Deciding. I didn’t want it. Instead of loving what is right there it is. Right. You’re 

Todd: assuming that there’s only one way to have peace, and that’s with a quiet mind, but couldn’t it be peace with an active mind?

Right.

Client: Okay. And I’m getting a glimpse of, you know, people, my mind being a problem solving kind of mind. And so I’ve trained it to look for a problem to solve in order for it to, you know, earn its keep. 

Todd: Yeah, that could be its joy. That could be ITSs peace. That could [00:21:00] be, you know, like a horse was built to run, so it loves running.

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: It’s active, but peaceful.

Client: I could, if the, if something comes into my mind that’s a problem, I can just be all excited and write it down and put it in my little book and, and go back to

just enjoying where I am. 

Todd: Yeah. Or follow it out into, its there. Into its, 

Client: yeah, let it wherever its in the background. I could still be looking at the flowers and the bees and the dogs and everything while my mind is doing its thing in the background. Yeah,

Todd: exactly. 

Client: That’d be an interesting experience. Now I’m looking forward to it.

Todd: It means peace is not dependent on what your mind is doing. Right. That’s the Yeah. A 

Client: picture I’m getting is, [00:22:00] is driving. When I’m driving, especially if I have a long drive, it’s I’m peaceful and then there’s all this stuff going on around me. 

Todd: Great example. 

Client: Yeah.

Todd: It could be in the thick of problem solving. It could be working on a project. It could be doing something very dynamic. And who’s to say peace has to go 

Client: right.

Todd: Thanks. Thank you. I. All right, so, um, we got a good another 10 minutes if anybody else wants to do a little bit of work or if anyone has any other question that they’d like to bring up.[00:23:00] [00:24:00] 

Client 2: I am just noticing a thought, Todd. Yeah. It seems really silly and petty, but that seems maybe worth doing. 

Todd: Sounds good to me. Yep. The sillier and pettier the better. 

Client 2: Um, it is. So I’ve been sitting here with, um, maybe it’s gone now actually. It might have just worked, but, um, this Riverside app, I use my phone because it wasn’t working on my laptop a few weeks ago and I don’t understand what the issue is there.

And then on the phone, during this last 20 minutes, it’s had this, um. [00:25:00] Message saying there’s not enough storage also on the phone. And, um, I need to, I don’t even know what, it just disappeared. So maybe now it’s not a problem, but it’s been in front of your faces the whole time. So I’ve just been sitting here not able to see people, which is okay, but I notice a thought that’s like this, um, I don’t know what it is, app or software is, um, annoying.

Todd: Good one. Yeah. I love it. Okay, so is it true this software or this app is annoying?

Client: Yes. 

Todd: And can you absolutely know? It’s true. It’s annoying.

Client 2: No, I. 

Todd: So how do you react? [00:26:00] What happens when you’re getting this message now for the second time about the space and all these error messages and you think this software is annoying?

Client 2: Oh, I notice kind of a pit in my stomach and I see this. Kind of just these series of images, you know, like 15 minutes before this was to start, I thought like, oh God, I gotta get on that Riverside thing. Oh yeah. Use my phone. Oh yeah, I gotta, I gotta get on. And then it’s never straightforward and always telling me to do something.

Yeah. I just have these images of, a couple weeks ago I was gonna do the work and then it stopped recording. And so I call my [00:27:00] husband, Scott comes over, tries to, he’s trying to figure it out and browser, whatever. I don’t even know, I don’t even know what these things mean. There’s not space on the browser.

We never even use that browser. I like have this list of complaints. Like I want, I notice that I wanna, I wanna tell someone how ridiculous this is.

I want.

Yeah, I want, I want attention. I want to be able to complain to someone, and there’s not anyone who deserves to be complained to, but I, I often feel this with technology like, man, let me just tell somebody what a pain, there’s nobody there. And whoever I might tell it’s not their fault, you know?

It’s kind of distantly related to [00:28:00] these guys, CEOs sitting in their big offices, creating all this stuff. And then here we are at the receiving end, you know, the little minion just trying to use it and it’s not working. And I just wanna shake my fist at them and. I don’t know. It gets kind of rolled into this whole big, like stick it to the man and this is a pain and, and it’s a victim mentality of

I have to deal with this and I don’t even know what it means. And so, yeah, I, I didn’t realize it’s, I, um, tripping into this whole bigger story

and it. I’m not able to just be grateful that I get to just drop in with y’all, just see if there’s a workaround, see if I can get it to work today and, and just be here. [00:29:00] All that is kind of lost to me is this, this annoyance that feels so in the background. It’s actually kind of taking up a lot of space.

Todd: So who would you be when the same error messages happen and same situation happens with this software, who would you be without the thought that it’s annoying. I.

Client 2: I [00:30:00] feel a little stuck in a loop. I notice. When you ask the question, what first comes is like, oh gosh. I could try to figure that out. I could try to see what that means.

If you had to do this kind of thing before, I don’t fully understand why. I end up why storage ends up full, but. I feel like I don’t use that much, but I, so I start to think, oh, I could, I could do something about this. And then I kind of trip into this like, ah, but I tried that before. And it’s, there’s always something.

Todd: And then you go back into who you are with the thought. It’s annoying 

Client 2: feature back there. Like, yeah, but if this isn’t annoying, something else will.[00:31:00] 

Todd: So it’s a, actually, this is really helpful what you’re saying because it shows the difference of when that thought is present, that it’s annoying, and whereas when it sort of slips away, if you’re imagining, if you didn’t have it, how you’d be going into just dealing with it or, or, or looking at it. So this is, this is like a, a clear contrast there.

Um, but say more about it. Do you notice anything? Yeah, if you didn’t have the thought at all, that it was annoying and the same error messages are happening,

Client 2: gosh, I, I can only really be there for a split second. Mm-hmm. But second, I think like, okay, I could just sit down and I. You know, do a search [00:32:00] on what do I do if this browser doesn’t have space, and what does that even mean? And I don’t even use this browser and I’ve only used it once. What? You know, I could, I could do something.

Yeah. And then very quickly comes with like, yeah, I do. Is that what I wanna do? Right. 

Todd: The thought comes back in, it’s annoying and it just should just work. 

Client 2: Yeah, 

Todd: yeah, yeah. But 

Client 2: without the thought, there’s like this forward movement, this openness in my mind and like this thought of like, oh, I could learn something.

Mm-hmm. I could learn to do something with tech and then, you know, then the voice is like, yeah, that’s not what you wanna do. Yeah. There’s this little space of. Actually, it’s a space of, it’s me without my identity, without my, without this story I have of myself of like, yeah, but I don’t like this stuff and I don’t even, [00:33:00] I don’t even wanna deal with screens and apps and all of it, but clearly I do.

’cause I, I do like meaning up here. So there’s this story of me also that’s in the way. Of me just saying, well, maybe I’ll figure it out. Maybe I’ll just a little time in my day and figure it out. And then the story says, no, then you don’t. That’s not you. That’s for other people who like to do this thing.

Todd: Right? I’m not a technology person, you know? And then, and then boom, everything shuts down and I’m just a victim of this annoying software. Yeah, 

Client 2: yeah. Seeing that it’s kind of dumb to have this story of myself. ’cause then I just keep coming up against this. These annoying situations. And if I didn’t have a story that I’m not that kind of person, maybe I just figure it out and move past it and

yeah, get help. And sometimes it would still come up and sometimes it wouldn’t. I mean, I see my brother, [00:34:00] both my brothers are in tech and. Actually, they spend a lot of their time annoyed with things not working. They’re like a high level, you know, they’re like really high level, but 

Todd: high level annoyance 

Client 2: for a living.

So. Actually the story of, oh, I’m not like that. Maybe this is just partly, it’s just a universal that a lot of us run up against these moments of like, oh, what is happening? I don’t even, I don’t understand this, or I don’t quite know, or, 

Client: right. 

Client 2: I could try this or call someone. I mean, maybe it’s just kind of universal and it’s not about me and I’m not different or special.

Client: Yeah. 

Todd: Could be a little of both, you know? Yeah. I think there’s, yeah. There’s something to it. So, but you can get that flavor of if you weren’t, so, if you weren’t thinking that it was annoying, there’s just that little bit of creativity and [00:35:00] openness to explore and maybe, um, maybe even reconsider who you are.

But regardless, there’s a, there’s an, it’s the opposite of feeling. Disempowered is a more of a feeling of, uh, okay, what can I do as a, yeah, open thing. 

Client 2: Yeah, it’s easy. It feels good, feels like, it feels like being flexible, like when, like the opposite of being stiff, you know, like, 

Todd: yeah, 

Client 2: yeah, I can just move in the world, in my body.

I can do things rather than like, like this is 

Todd: blocked. So then I just flow around it, you know? Okay. Where’s the. 

Client 2: Totally. 

Todd: Okay, so turn the thought around. The software is annoying. 

Client 2: Well, I’m annoying. I mean, I saw that in question too. Like, wait, what’s annoying here? That’s happening in me.

Yeah, I am. [00:36:00] My thinking is annoying. I’m annoyed by my thinking, like all that’s where it’s happening. The, the annoyance is a judgment. That I’m kind of getting hooked into the software is like, it could be anything. You know, I could be annoyed by the sunlight coming in. I could. It could be anything. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Client 2: it’s not the software.

And actually every time I’ve used the software, there’s been like some little things to figure out. Like the first time I hung up and it didn’t download the recording, blah, blah. You know, like I’m kind of learning. I’m kind of. There’s a, each time I learn a little something and, and so it’s not the software itself that seems to be, I don’t fully get it, but I also haven’t given it really any time to understand it.

And, and it seems to, here I am again and the error message went away and I’m doing the work. So it’s, I see that it’s [00:37:00] all. It feels like it’s working with me, like I’m not giving it much effort and it’s the soft, so I guess the software’s not annoying. It’s um, what’s the opposite of annoying? It’s satisfying maybe.

Okay.

It’s like, yeah. The software self is, um.

Keeps telling me things that I need to do a little differently, but then it kind of keeps working. Somehow it keeps, it keeps showing up, so that’s pretty satisfying. I’ve not ever hit a roadblock with it that I just can’t get back on, or it crashes or it doesn’t work the next time like it, it’s.

Todd: Right. There’s levels of annoyance. It could be a lot [00:38:00] more annoying. 

Client 2: Yeah. Asking for small adjustments each time, or try this browser, or actually that browser doesn’t work. Then I try a different device or you know, it’s, 

Client: right. 

Client 2: Yeah. It’s low level and it’s still working. So it’s, it’s, I mean. It’s actually satisfying when I finally got it to upload that time for you.

And I know I need Edwin’s help and all this. Like, wait, go back and get on and go back to the same device and figure where is the thing and what do you have to do? And then it finally did, and Scott and I were like, yes. Okay. Whatever that was, we it, we did it. 

Todd: It was a big win. I don’t know what it was, but.

Client 2: So, yeah, there’s like satisfaction 

Todd: in it. I mean, isn’t that what annoyance is? Like I can’t win thought comes down to winning. 

Client 2: Yeah. [00:39:00] Yeah. I’m not even a tech person, but I liked that moment, 

Todd: like, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I’ll take that. That’s gonna make the highlight real.

Client 2: Oh really? I see that there’s this thing, you know, it’s like, it’s this whole product of the mind. To be annoyed or stopped, you know, something’s a puzzle or an obstacle, and then it can be all this thought and drama around it. And then in the end it works out. And then there’s this big, yeah, there’s this big win or satisfaction or relief or whatever.

And that’s okay. That’s an okay way to do life. But I also don’t even have to do, I wouldn’t even have to do all that, you know, I could. Kind of say like, maybe it works today, maybe it doesn’t. I’ll try it again. Or I’ll, at some point I’ll do a search and figure out what that thing means. Or I’ll ask Edwin, he’s so helpful.

Always. Or you know, like there’s lots of ways to do it. Kind of more chill. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Sort of the dramatic way, like. When I’m success. When I’m successful, it’s a, I’m a [00:40:00] winner. And when I’m, when I’m unsuccessful, I’m a loser. And when it’s working, it’s great. And when I’m not working, I hate it. It’s annoying.

So it’s like the drama of up and down instead of just, okay, we’ll see what’s 

Client 2: right. 

Todd: Yeah, yeah, 

Client 2: yeah. Maybe I could, maybe I don’t, maybe I learned something about it. Maybe whatever. I mean, I could also just. I, I mean, if I couldn’t get on today, then I’d have an extra half hour. That’s okay too, like, 

Todd: right.

Client 2: Yeah. It’s all really okay. 

Todd: Right. From that perspective, that software could even be called generous and like giving you an extra 30 minutes in your day that you Yep. You know, that wasn’t spoken for. And so it all depends on how you see it. 

Client 2: Right, right. Like I can actually see that software is always just, it’s just life allowing something and either that’s meet up with people or do [00:41:00] something or learn something, or it’s like, no, don’t do that right now.

Go, you know, do whatever else, or have this extra space. Or like, really, it’s just this tool for life to guide me into like, what, where should I be right in this moment? 

Todd: That’s a cool way to look at software. That’s a very cool way to look at it. Yeah. Nice turnaround. 

Client 2: Yeah. Thank you. Thank