Still Angry After Doing Inner Work? That’s Not a Failure—Exploring Overwhelm and HIdden Motives for HSPs

Todd: [00:00:00] One of the areas that many people find stressful is the area of money. Money is something we all have to live with and to help support you in living with money in a more peaceful way. My friend Grace Bell and I have created a course called Living with Money, and it’s a. Do it yourself. Course it has about 12 hours of video and we you’ll follow different people participating and thinking about how to do the work on money and doing some of the work on money.

And there will be exercises on how to actually do this. So if you’re interested I encourage you to go to the work as meditation.com and look at the. Living with money course and join us,

Client 2: it feels like I’m stuck, keep repeating over and over. The same thoughts, the same situations, like [00:01:00] when I don’t work on something for a couple of days or a week or something, it feels like it keeps like I keep coming back to the state where I was. And I, it feels, I don’t know. It feels like hopeless.

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around. And we use the work of Byron Katie. You’ve never heard of this process. It’s a way of questioning any stressful thought that you may have. What’s so amazing about this is that you can take any stressful situation, whether it’s hugely stressful or minorly stressful, and once you identify what you’re actually thinking and then question the thoughts that you’re having, you will experience that same situation often in a very different way.

I’m Todd Smith and on the program today. [00:02:00] We will be having some discussion. First, there’s a question about what happens if you’re doing the work on a regular basis on kind of the same situation and the anger is not going away. So we’re gonna look at that. There’s also another interesting discussion in this particular open session, which you’ll be hearing which is what if I’m being too careless as a result of doing the work?

Listen, as we go through these thoughts, think about them together. We’re not actually doing the work in this particular episode, but there’s an interesting discussion and I will finish by reading one of my newsletter articles called The Work Works if You Work It. So let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie together.

It’s a simple and powerful way to question anything that you’re thinking, and it can be very liberating as a result. So here’s our latest weekly open session, and as always, I [00:03:00] share the unedited recording so that you can experience the work in this case, this discussion in its completely unedited form.

Client 2: I thought, can I ask something? Yes, go ahead. Okay. So I’ve been reading your blog and I’ve been identifying myself with some of the things that I. Because I feel I’m a little bit stuck and I read some articles about that. And so it feels it feels like I’m stuck, keep repeating over and over.

The same thoughts, the same situations, like when I don’t work on something for a couple of days or a week or something, it feels like it keeps, I keep coming back to the state where I was and it feels, I don’t know, it feels like hopeless [00:04:00] doing the work. I don’t know. Yeah.

And sometimes like I expect maybe happen, sorry.

No, go ahead. So sometimes I feel like. The anger. Sometimes with my mom especially, it’s, it feels stronger sometimes because I feel frustrated that it doesn’t go away or something like, I don’t know if it doesn’t sup if it’s not supposed to go away. But I was doing the work expecting it to go away maybe.

Yeah.

Todd: Sometimes talk about doing the work with the motive to, to make it go away, the motive to get out of the stress, to make the anger disappear. And and basically what I’ve noticed is I don’t have any control over that. [00:05:00] I can’t control if the anger goes away. I can’t. But I can, what I can control is I can do the work and I can try different ways of doing the work.

I can work on different situations. I can do it in a more meditative way or whatever, but that’s all I can control. I can’t control what actually happens with the work. Anger might go away. Many times it does. Anger might not go away. That could happen. I know. When I first started doing the work, I.

And I was working a lot on my partner and it, yeah, it got a little better, but it didn’t go away. The anger was still there, the frustration was still there. A lot of those emotions were still there. I could still get so easily triggered and it took years of doing the work, different ways, different situations.

Each time was like just. [00:06:00] Taking away a little bit of my stress about it taking, giving me a little more insight about how to look at that situation. And so this took time. And the work was just, I just kept doing the work. Doing the work. Somewhere along the way I started questioning, I need that to go away.

I need the anger to go away. I should be. Relieved from that by now. And when I questioned that, I became even easier. Oh, I can do this work. Maybe I do my whole life just to my partner and no problem. I’m going to work on something, so why not be on that? And so the more easier, the easier I got holding this situation and not worrying if it will be relieved or not.

The more, actually the work became effective at the same time. So it’s ironic, but the, [00:07:00] I start to find that I can I could I could explore these stressful thoughts with a very open mind. I don’t know what I will find. And that helped. But I would say I. First thing I would do is question.

I want the anger to go away. Just do the work on that right away. And then come back and see if you still want to do the work. And if you do, just do the work. Just do the work without worrying about whether it gets rid of the anger or not. And as you come back doing the work again and again on the same kind of situation, you may find that each time you see it a little bit differently, each situation brings a little different flavor.

And that’s what keeps [00:08:00] me going. Each time I’m like, oh. That’s a little bit different. Oh, it’s the same, but a little bit different. And I see it and I see it, and I see it. It’s like painting a picture. I start to see it and eventually I start to see it a lot more and it starts to stick with me and starts to become really clear.

And then my partner can say something that used to get me very angry and I’m just like. Okay, I recognize that one, but it doesn’t get me angry. So it’s a process. The work is a process. I think a lot of people have expectations that it’s going to happen just so quickly. For example, if you see Byron Katie doing the work with people and you see some of those YouTube videos, they’re amazing.

Like you can watch somebody going from stress to free in 20 minutes, and it is amazing. I did the work with her. In one of those videos and it did change my life and it was amazing. But [00:09:00] work doesn’t always work that way. Most of the time. It’s a slow process and it can take months, it can take years, and it’s like meditation.

You just do it. And then as that continues, it tends to go deeper and tends to shake over time. That’s my experience. So that would be my second invitation for you is to let the next situation come up. Great, still anger is still there. Great. Use that anger in the next situation to write the new worksheet and do it again from slightly different point of view.

And it helps, it can also help. It can help sometimes working with a facilitator that can just hold you in it if you’re having trouble holding yourself in the work. There are many ways to assist, but the main thing is just keep doing it. Just keep doing the work. It’s like little by little the whole system gets [00:10:00] cleared.

Client: Okay. 

Client 2: Thank you. Yes, 

Client: you’re welcome. 

Client 2: Yes. I think this thoughts of wanting to get something out of the practice or to wanting to get rid of the anger, like they prevent me from keeping ke keep doing it, like to be, they prevent me from being constant, I think, on the practice. They make me not enjoy it.

So I just stop doing it. 

Todd: Exactly. Yes. Because what happens when I’m not, when I’m thinking I want the anger to go away and it’s not going away. I feel frustrated. 

Client: Yes. I 

Todd: feel powerless. Yeah. I feel like I cannot make it happen, so I don’t wanna play this game. Forget it. That’s what happens. Yeah. And then I’m measuring myself.

Am I getting closer to my goal? Am I more, how much percentage of anger is removed? I’m like [00:11:00] calculating and measuring where is my attention. My attention is on getting rid of the anger instead of on doing the work, which is where the anger gets neutralized. When I focus on just doing the work, is it true?

How do I react? Who would I be without the thought? Turning their thoughts around when I’m focusing on the content of the work, not on getting rid of the anger, that’s when it starts to show me things more and I can, and then I’m not impatient, so I can stay in that turnaround and maybe I will find 10 examples instead of three examples, or I may find.

30 examples, or I may just keep sitting in that. I’m, each time I sit, it’s like a new worksheet, even though it’s the same relationship. That kind of mindset comes when I’m not focused on getting rid of the anger. 

Client: Yeah.[00:12:00] 

Okay. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s a idea of. Focusing on the process, not on the goal. And when I’m focused on the goal, if I have a goal, if I turn it into a goal, then I’m just only focused on the goal. I cannot do anything. But when I’m focused on the process, the goal comes sometimes, but I’m not a hundred. I can’t control it.

But that’s the most effective way to do it. Yeah. And then we have this whole idea of like anger like I need to get rid of it. It’s bad. I can’t handle it. Who would you be without those stories? Those can be questioned too. And if I make friends with anger, then when it shows up, I’m not so surprised or I’m not so upset.

It’s just, oh, it’s just anger. Okay, great. It’s gonna be a good worksheet. Can’t [00:13:00] wait.

Yeah, I think that’s the number one is question. Thoughts about, I want the anger to go away and see where you go.

So anyone else have a question or anything you want to add or anyone want to do the work? I.

Client 3: Yeah. Edwin. Yeah, Todd, I have a question about quite the opposite that Jose just shared with us. Like the his question, how about when you go to the other extreme? Because I’m feeling like a little bit of not finding that balance like in the middle, but going from that anger place. To the almost a careless phase where I [00:14:00] don’t mind at all, and I feel a little bit guilty of working on some of those things because the attachment is gone and I feel bad because there should be an attachment because I’m talking about stuff with my family too.

So do you have any experience with those kind of things where you like feel like you’re just like way too. Free in a way, but you feel guilty that you shouldn’t be there or something like that. 

Todd: Yeah. Like you’re being irresponsible. Yeah. 

Client 3: And of course like comparisons come up with everything. It’s ’cause we’re talking about family, so you start, you, it’s impossible not to compare yourself sometimes with some other family, especially in these dates and how they get together and the things that they do.

And like you not having that. But more like not caring about not having that, it makes me like, feel guilty a little bit. Should I be feeling that way or, 

Todd: yeah. 

Yeah. So if you find the balance [00:15:00] goes too far or if you start feeling guilty, that’s the clue. Guilty. So you’re feeling guilty.

So what is the thought there that’s making you feel guilty?

Client 3: I guess it goes back to a comparison that like I should have, like my family should be like everyone else’s family, have time together and all that kind of thing. That’s what I think it is. I’m not sure, but 

Todd: yeah, guilt thought from my experience, guilt. The thoughts behind the feeling of guilt.

Always start with should or shouldn’t, or should have or should. Something like that. So I should, my family should be like everyone else’s family, or I should have more time for them, or I should care. I should like whatever it is where you’re feeling guilty, then you can question that. That’s one thing.

Another thing that you [00:16:00] can do is notice like where is that balance between this stressful thought and the turnaround? And I can go too far and not care at all, and it becomes the like a bad thing maybe. Or I can become too stressed over. Doing it perfectly, and that feels stressful. So somewhere in the middle, I like to say caring.

Without caring. There’s a place where I care, but I don’t care. And I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to describe that other than it’s a, it’s, I’m not completely blank. I don’t not care. I still care, but I don’t care that much. I’m not attached to it, but I’m still. Going for it. 

Client 4: That’s what I call it a caring detachment.

Todd: Yeah, exactly. So that’s, I always talk about balance in the turnarounds. There’s this original sta stressful statement, I don’t [00:17:00] know what it is, I should care. And then turnaround is I shouldn’t care. So those two, they balance each other and somewhere in between, I have this place where I, I.

Shouldn’t care and I should care, and they neutralize each other and I do care and I don’t care, and that’s a very free space. So that’s what I’m looking for. When I’m doing my work, I’m looking for that space of freedom. If I go too far, then I just bring it back and find the middle again.

If I go too far this way, I bring it back and find the middle. And the work just helps me to find the balance there. But you can even do it after the work. Just by remembering oh, okay. Or just feeling where is that balance point. But it’s also really good to question the guilt. Like really my, I should, my family should be like everyone else’s.

Is it true? And maybe I have different rules for my family. Maybe my life is different than other people’s. Maybe. It’s [00:18:00] okay to be weird. And that’s also. A place of freedom, but I know when I’m feeling like this is too much or this is too little. So it’s a matter of listening to yourself.

There’s no easy answer for you other than if you feel stressed, keep questioning it, feel stressed, keep questioning. You feel like the turnaround round went too far. Then bring yourself back. You can do the work on the turnaround if you need to. I don’t recommend that right away, as a way, if I’ve gotten stuck over in turnaround land, that’s too unbalanced for me.

I’ll do the work on that and bring myself back to the middle. Great. Thank you. Yeah, welcome. I.

Yeah, this whole process is about finding balance. Finding balance, and it’s not it’s not a static thing. It’s not like you find it once and then you’re done. The analogy I [00:19:00] like to use is whitewater rafting, and you take, if you start going over, like you’re going to go in the water, then you. Paddle and then it balances you.

But then if you don’t do anything, it’ll make you balance and make you fall on the other side. So then you have to paddle again and then it, so you have to always be paddling. And as you do the work more and more, even without doing the work, you’re just balancing, balancing and you’re able to stay upright even with lots of changes in crazy water all around you.

The work is like that big pedal that makes you come back up, but it might take you too far, then you have to go the other way. And so it’s a balancing act for sure. Yeah. Wendy, 

Client 4: I I had an experience this morning that I just wanna contribute to what you’re saying as far as balance. I have always thought I wanna make.

Make [00:20:00] things more convenient for people and then they’ll be nicer to me. And so I’ve done a lot of work on being nice, so that yeah. And and I was, my doctor was gonna send me a piece of paper and she wanted to know if I wanted to pick it up or she was gonna mail it. And so I said, oh, I’ll pick it up, because I automatically went to the, make it less inconvenient for them so that they’ll be nice.

And and I got in my car to go get it this morning, and I got to the end of my street and I just said what am I doing? I’ve already done the work on this. This is not, I don’t, I had to, and then I did it just real quickly again. It’s what did I get when I did the work on I have to be nice to people or they won’t treat me well, or I know they’ll mess up with me or whatever.

And as soon as I remembered the work that I had done it, it like just expanded and went away [00:21:00] again. Yeah. If that makes any sense. And I turned around and came home and I sent them a text and said, thanks for your offer to mail it. Yeah. Just mail it to me. 

Client: Yeah.

Client 4: It’s like me having to drive someplace and pick something up is.

Better than making them lick a stamp,

Todd: yeah. I like what you said, just remembering my work. Sometimes I do the work. This is the way I always do the work. I do the work and then I forget about the work. I don’t try to memorize the work or hold onto it. I just forget about it. Whatever’s in there is in there, but then the situation comes up again, and then my mind goes.

Didn’t I do the work on this? Oh, and I don’t necessarily have to do the work again on that situation. I just can remember that I did it and it comes back and I’m like, oh no I’m going back home. I don’t need to go be nice. 

Client 4: Exactly. [00:22:00] 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. That’s very cool. 

Client 4: Yeah. And that helps me when I think in terms of, oh, there’s, do the work on anything that comes up because.

It may not be bothering me at the moment that I have the time to do the work, but later when it does come up, I will have done the work on it. 

Todd: Exactly. This is a preventive medicine here. We’re doing the work on any situation and then any situation that comes up similar is going to be a lot easier.

You’re going to recognize it and probably sidestep that whole issue happens all the time, 

Client 4: Or at least reduce the. The charge on it. You know that 

Todd: right? And it doesn’t mean I can’t do the work on it again. Like I maybe got a little tiny charge. I could still write a whole worksheet and do the work again, and go in for the kill, find out what other stressful thoughts are there and question them and just clean it up even further.

Client 4: There’s an underlying conversation going on right here that I keep [00:23:00] asking myself and I made a note. Everyone is saying, I should be like the other families. Like the other families. And I don’t know any families that are actually like what we think the other families are every time, it’s like there, there’s not a un dysfunctional or non dysfunctional family that I’ve met yet.

Client: Yeah, no. And 

Client 4: so it’s like we’re trying to attain some kind of perfection that doesn’t exist. 

Todd: Exactly. Exactly. And who’s to say, just to push the envelope here, who’s to say that being completely feeling completely careless is careless? 

Client: Yeah, 

Todd: because when I’m careless, I’m actually in a very open state, and I often would be willing to do almost anything because I don’t care, I’m not attached.

So there’s a, there’s something really. Open to [00:24:00] service there as well. But if there’s not a need, then I’ll just keep doing something else. ’cause I don’t need to, I don’t have to feel guilty about not taking care of somebody because they don’t need taken care of. But if they do need to be taken care of for some reason, and I’m in a careless state.

Chances are I’m going to take care of them. It’s just nature. I’ll just follow that what my heart would do. So I don’t have to, in a way, I don’t have to worry about becoming too careless because yeah, there may not be such a thing like care happens spontaneously. It’s just, it’s like love, it just happens. It’s, and. What I’m feeling is that sense of irresponsibility of, oh my gosh, I’m not worried about it and I’m not trying really hard. I’m not trying to do it perfectly. That’s just [00:25:00] when that gets questioned and it falls away, I. You’re in a weird state. It’s what is this? Who am I? Yeah.

And, but that’s not necessarily a bad place to be. That might be more who I am than me trying really hard to do it right and trying to please everybody. When I’m just relaxed and I don’t really care, I’m open, and when I’m open. I may actually be more responsive to whatever the needs are. And if there are no needs, I’m not gonna do anything.

So I’m not interfering wonderful. If there’s a genuine need, I’m stepping in. Wonderful. I’m open. And there, went out this morning 

Client 4: when the doctor’s assistant said, she gave me the choice, she said, you can come pick it up if it was gonna be a trouble for her to mail it to me. She wouldn’t have offered mailing it to me as one of my options.

And so it’s like where, where do we make [00:26:00] up that another person is how they feel or, what’s the right thing to do? Is that caring that I, was it caring that I wanted to go do it and make it less? Less convenient for me and more convenient for her.

Or was it fear that if I didn’t make it convenient for her, then she’ll do something to make it inconvenient for someone else? It’s oh, it wasn’t caring on my part. It was a fear of either not being thought of being, oh, Wendy’s the best, versus, that’s part of it. My dog, sorry. It’s yeah, the concern like, oh I’ll do all the work so that everyone knows I’m great.

Client: Okay. 

Client 4: But then I’m not great because I am really not necessarily making it better for them, and then I’m holding a grudge, and not realizing I’m holding it. When that’s happening. So yeah, then I had done all [00:27:00] that work on all of that, and then it just, it was perfect to have it just come back to me and then, what is caring?

How do we even know what caring looks like? 

Todd: Exactly. We’re so used to, 

Client 4: yeah. 

Todd: Calling caring, taking care when we may not even need to be taking care, like worrying and. Stepping into other people’s business. We call it caring, right? And 

Client 4: yeah, let me help you by not helping you. How do I know what’s helping?

Todd: Yeah. 

Client 4: So

Todd: to really find out what is needed and what isn’t needed. You almost have to step into a place of not caring so that you don’t have any motive going right back to where we started, like motive of doing the work. If I really don’t care, then I can, I’m free to move where? I will naturally go.

And that’s what the work does. It undoes what’s unnatural and leaves us with what’s natural, who we are, which [00:28:00] is ironically caring, but not in a, not in an overly caring way. Not in a, not in an in your business kind of way. Yeah.

If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one we just heard, then go to the work as meditation.com and you’ll find the open sessions page there and you’ll see the schedule of upcoming sessions. You can sign up, sign the release form there, and then you’ll be able to bring your own questions or join me to do the work with me.

While you’re there, I also encourage you to go to the virtual retreats page on the work as meditation.com. This is where you’ll find information about my quarterly retreats. I have a winter retreat, I have a spring retreat, a summer retreat, and an autumn retreat. And each of these is a whole weekend.

We do it on Zoom and [00:29:00] you’ll find, a lot of support for doing the work in spoken form there. We basically work around the clock for 48 hours, and it’s a great way to go a little deeper in your work. You can come for two hours, then take a break, come for another two hours. You can pick and choose which sessions you come to.

There’s sessions around the clock for you to choose from.

Next, I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles called The Work Works. If you work it,

it’s great to do the work without attachment to an outcome, but that doesn’t mean the work has no outcome. Quite the opposite is true. The work bears rich fruit. The work works if you work it. I love to write about the work of Byron Katie, especially about the process of doing the work, and I do focus on the process of [00:30:00] doing the work.

And as a result, I write a lot about the value of questioning one’s motives for doing the work. This is because the less attached I am to an outcome, the easier and more effective the work is in my experience. So question your motives. For sure. I need to fix this relationship by doing the work. I want to be free of this worry.

I want to be enlightened by questioning your motives. You can loosen your attachment to any outcomes from doing the work and make it easier to actually do the work. But this doesn’t mean that there are no outcomes. I wouldn’t be doing the work for all these years if I didn’t get something significant out of the process.

Let’s take a look at this side of the story today, just for balance. What is the fruit of doing the work? In my experience, the fruit of doing the work is an experience of freedom and internal [00:31:00] balance. As I question my stressful thoughts, I usually find that my attachment to one point of view and to getting what I thought I wanted shifts.

I become more open-minded. I feel more flexible inside. For example, I did the work recently on being interrupted during sleep. Yes, a puppy was involved and in my stress state, I hated being interrupted. I. So after doing the work, my attitude shifted dramatically. I’m now in a very different place. I’m willing to move out of sleep and into action more seamlessly.

There’s less resistance to doing whatever may need to be done, even in the middle of the night, and there’s less fear of being interrupted. In fact, I’m looking forward to testing it out. It feels like I’m a new person in that particular regard. I don’t even [00:32:00] recognize myself, but it feels really good. The fruit of the work is an experience.

When I see things differently, I feel differently. When I feel differently, I act differently, but it’s all based on how I see the situation. After doing the work, I usually notice a shift in how I see it. This opens my heart, allows me to breathe deeper. And relaxes my body. I’m less impatient with others, more in touch with myself, and more compassionate.

And all of this comes from seeing that my stressful story was not the whole picture. Once I see a bigger picture, my experience changes things. I have done the work on, I’ve done the work almost daily since 2007, and I’ve covered a lot of topics. I usually just let life bring up the next subject or stressful situation to work.[00:33:00] 

Here are a few topics that have really shifted over the years relationship with partner. When I started the work, I felt stuck in my relationship. It was a big stress for me. There were many facets of the relationship that needed to be worked. I’ve done more work on this relationship than on anything else.

The result has been a gradual change from feeling like a victim and blaming my partner to knowing how to ask for what I want, stand up for myself and appreciate the qualities that my partner brings. I find myself now where I want to be rather than hoping somehow to escape. This is a direct result from doing the work and for me, it feels like a miracle money.

I used to worry about money, especially about how to earn it without compromising my values, which are often about spiritual practice. Rather than making money [00:34:00] through the work, I no longer see a conflict between material and spiritual values, excuse me. And through further work on the subject, I no longer worry about not having enough.

In fact, my ability to earn has increased dramatically, even when doing something that I love to do, but I’m also willing to change my job at any point if necessary. The work has opened this space for me. Success. Money is one way of measuring success, but I measure it on many levels. Another name for this is perfectionism.

I’ve done a lot of work on this area and I don’t even see it as bad anymore. Excuse me. I love to do things well. I always will, but I’m way less stressed about doing them well than when I am not able to do them well. [00:35:00] This has shown up in how I run my business, how I play pickleball, how I work out, how I sleep, how I eat, how I learn French, and how I train a dog.

And I can even add, just coughing just now is like I would’ve said, oh my God, I’ve ruined it. And I’m like, oh, it doesn’t have to be perfect. So in each of these activities, I have done the work many times on various situations that arise, and the result for me is a healthy non-attachment. Without giving up kind of a balance there, I often now see a balanced way to achieve things.

I pursue my desire to do things well, but I also know that I’m fine in case nothing ever comes to completion. I wouldn’t enjoy this kind of freedom without the work grief dealing with my mom’s sudden death in a plane crash in 2010 was challenging, but doing the work on my stressful [00:36:00] thoughts each day sped me through the grieving process.

After two months, I was free of grief and full of acceptance and love. And the grief never came back. That comes directly from doing the work, and I could go on and on. Whenever I bring another stressful situation, be it small or big to the work, I see new options. I find ways to balance desire with just being.

I grow in patience, understanding, peace and contentment, and my relationships become at the same time more meaningful and less of a big deal. I can only look forward to doing more work over the years to see what new layers of stress will be removed. Bottom line is the work really works. It’s something that I go to as a real support in my life and I’ve been using it for many years.

And yeah, [00:37:00] that’s where I find. An ability to turn around any situation, and that’s gives me a lot of freedom. So it’s one of the most powerful tools that I know.

Okay, so let’s end with a quote from Byron Katie and her book Loving. What is. When I say that the worst that can happen is a belief, I’m being literal, the worst that can happen to you is your Uninvestigated belief system.