The Hidden Cost of Frugality: Overcoming Financial Overwhelm (Stress Management for the Highly Sensitive Person)

Todd: [00:00:00] Topic of money is a very interesting topic for doing the work. Many times people think, ah, I don’t really have that much stress around money. And it’s true, it’s not that active all the time, but when you look into it and you start exploring, you may find there are all kinds of beliefs that are sitting there that influence the way you deal with money and the way you deal with things related to money, and they go unquestioned.

So questioning your thoughts about money can be a very liberating experience. And for this very reason I’ve created a course along with Grace Bell on money. We call it Living With Money, and it’s a do it yourself course that you can go through at your own pace. There are. At least 12 now looks like getting close to 18 hours of video that you can enjoy.

And then there are written exercises that you can go through to start to flush out the stressful thoughts connected to money, and then begin to question them. [00:01:00] So if you want to embark on this as a kind of meditation, an area to explore, then I encourage you to go to the work as meditation.com, and then go to the Living with Money course.

You can either search for it or go to the products page and you’ll find it there.

Client: And there’s no pleasure in it. It’s. It’s, it, it takes away like, I don’t even wanna go. I like to the extreme I’m like, I don’t even wanna go. Because it’s so much so stressful to think about. Making the commitment and pulling the trigger. And then 

Todd: welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around.

And we use the work of Byron Katie. This is a simple way to question stressful thoughts. Stressful thoughts are sitting there in all of us. They’re active at certain [00:02:00] times, but they’re very rarely questioned. So this process of identifying the stressful thoughts in any particular situation and then questioning those stressful thoughts can open the experience in very new ways.

I’m Todd Smith and on the program today. Someone does the work on stressful thoughts about money. This person was booking an airline ticket and some hotel reservations, and the thought sitting underneath was, I need to spend as little as possible. Listen, as she does her work and goes through this process of questioning what she was thinking.

Also, there was a question coming from the open session recording about how to find the stressful thought to question about something as physical and maybe like hard to identify what’s bothering you as a spot on a tooth, a [00:03:00] permanent spot on a tooth. So listen as we go through that as well. And then finally, I’ll be reading my newsletter article called How to Not Be A Burden or Be Burdened.

So let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie together. This is a simple, powerful way to question what you think, and here’s our latest weekly open session recording. I record these and I share them in unedited form so that you can experience this just as we did in the session together.

Client: I am I guess the question is how to define the question in the sense of, I. Like I wrote down a few things like, money needs to be saved, money need is more needed in the future. Money’s for emergency, I need to spend as little as possible. So are those all, like I, I feel like I bounce around trying to get the question to work [00:04:00] on.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I hear what you’re saying and I would use the word, get the statement to, to question, get the statement to work on. So yes, it, that itself is part of this meditative process. I often talk about the work as meditation. It’s something that you do. As a way of listening to yourself, the first phase of listening to yourself is what are the stressful thoughts going on?

And just finding those is a process. And then. Then the next phase is going through the questions and seeing what answers you can find to those questions. So yeah, those kinds of things that you just mentioned, money needs to be saved. Those kind of thoughts are perfect to be questioned.

The only thing I would suggest is if you can find. A specific situation where that thought was active for you. For example, money needs to be saved. Maybe you just got your paycheck [00:05:00] and you, and you just automatically think, I’ve gotta save X amount. And and maybe that’s stressful for you.

Whatever the situation, if there’s like a moment when you were. Believing that, or what was hanging you up or where you were feeling the stress of it, that can help you when doing the work. But even said you can do the work in a general way, you do. Okay. I have that s 

Client: the, so the situation is I’m trying to book flight a flight and hotel and airfare, and I am having all these thoughts of I need to spend as little as possible.

Todd: Yes. Okay. And was it stressful for you? 

Client: Very, 

Todd: yes. Okay. So that is a perfect example of how you could identify the statement, the thought really that is bugging you in a particular situation. Now you have everything you need [00:06:00] to really go deeply with the work. So in fact, if you want, we can do the work on that.

Right now, if you’d like. 

Client: So that’d be great. 

Todd: Okay, let’s do it. So you’re trying to book a flight and hotel and airfare and everything, and the thought is I need to spend as little as possible. So is it true you need to spend as little as possible?

Client: No.

Todd: So how do you react? What happens when you think you need to spend as little as possible and you’re in the process of booking these reservations? 

Client: I don’t book it ’cause I feel like I gotta keep checking different websites different times. So it becomes a extended. Process. I don’t do it.

Even my heart races, I get really nervous. [00:07:00] I I just keep prolonging it, thinking I gotta check more, and it takes a lot of time and there’s no pleasure in it. It’s. It’s, it takes away I don’t even wanna go. I like to the extreme I’m like, I don’t even wanna go.

Because it’s so much so stressful to think about making the commitment and pulling the trigger and then worrying about was there a better deal out there. 

Todd: It can be very stressful and like you said, it just makes it this ongoing process. You can never know if there wasn’t something better out there.

So the job’s never really done oh, did I really maximize the, or, minimize my spending or not. Yeah. So this is reaction. The thought is I need to spend as little as possible. The reaction is. Trying to figure it out, trying to, to [00:08:00] turning it into a big process and the stress that comes from that.

Even willing to cancel the actual trip. So who would you be sitting there, going through this booking process, looking for hotels, looking for flights? Who would you be if you didn’t have the thought that you need to spend as little as possible?

Client: I would look at it more from a convenience, like what’s the most convenient times, what’s the most convenient location? I would look at it more what would make it an easy trip? A low budget trip. I would look at it from convenience, I think would be the big thing. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Client: Oh, other [00:09:00] variable. If it was an emergency to go, it wouldn’t matter what it cost.

So it’s like there’s a probably another statement of. There’s a price for pleasure versus emergency, kind of thing. If I didn’t think about, if I just had to go, I would just spend what it cost. But since I’m planning a pleasure trip, then it’s not fun. So without the thought it would be.

Shorter. Shorter, that’s for sure. Yeah. Quicker, easier. Yes. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And what I’m hearing is more aware of other factors besides just money. Money is one factor, but convenience is another. And there may be others like more, just more open minded in that process rather than just, it’s gotta be the least possible amount [00:10:00] of money that I spend.

Yeah. So how would you turn the thought around? I need to spend as little as possible.

Client: I need to spend the most possible. It doesn’t make sense. Okay. Let’s see. 

Todd: That’ll be the extreme opposite turnaround. And we can go there or if you want, we can step it up towards it gently. Play with it. 

Client: I don’t need to spend the least possible. That’s true. 

Todd: Okay. That’s an easier version of that.

Yeah. Okay. So you don’t need to, why is that true? You don’t need to spend as little as possible. 

Client: Because I. Have the 

Todd: money. That would be a great reason right [00:11:00] there.

Client: I don’t need to spend this little as possible. Because this is what I’ve saved money for. Is that 

Todd: Wow. Yeah. Absolutely. It’s like we’re so good at saving money, and then when it comes time to spend it on the thing that we were saving for, then we’re like no, we have to hold back. But this is what, if this is what you were saving for, then it’s not true that you have to spend as little as possible.

Client: Right.

Todd: And, do you get a prize or some kind of approval or something if you spent as little as possible? Ding ding. You spent as little as possible, you win. 

Client: Yeah. It feels that way. It feels like, it’s that [00:12:00] idea of the future. I could need this more in the future than I need it now.

Like it’s that 

Todd: Exactly. Another underlying belief there. Yeah. That makes me, that supports the idea that I should spend as little as possible. ’cause I might not have it in the future. Yeah. But then again, you might have it in the future. You might have enough in the future when you look back to when you were young.

You didn’t know what the future was, but is there more money than you were expecting when you were young or less money 

Client: in my life now? You mean

Yeah. Oh. I’d say much more. Wow. 

Todd: So it’s funny how we have this dim view of the future that money is going to become less like I have to be careful.

But in [00:13:00] reality, in your own experience, money has become more over time. 

Client: Yes. So

Todd: these are just examples of, I don’t necessarily need to spend as little as possible. There may be enough. And it doesn’t mean the thought just came up that 

Client: the thought just came up. That, past that, that thing they say about finances, past results do not indicate future results or something like that.

Todd: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We’re basing future results on past results, and it’s not necessarily related. Money’s a wild thing. It’s like all over the place. You just don’t know. What it will be, can’t even predict the stock market. So how can I be sure that money’s gonna be less in the future? It might be more.[00:14:00] 

And here I am living, spending as little as possible as if I’m poor when I’m not. It doesn’t mean the other version of this turnaround doesn’t necessarily mean I have to spend as much as possible either, but I don’t have to spend as little as possible either. 

I may find the balance point. There’s enough convenience here that it’s worth it for me, or yeah, I remember when I finally.

I was in my twenties, I finally decided I’m not gonna fly Budget Airlines anymore because I’d been bumped off of them so many times. And it was like, fly by night airlines. And I remember taking the bus because the flight was canceled. And I just realized I, I’m gonna do that now.

I’m gonna just spend a little bit more for a normal airline or something like that. And I. [00:15:00] Everyone bankrupt because of that. Yeah. In fact, that’s another way to look for turnaround examples. If you spent a little more, is it possible that you would still have enough from like other ways that you, if you needed to cut costs?

There are other ways besides spending as little on the flight and airfare.

Client: Yeah it’s, and the reality is that I can afford it. The thinking is that I can’t, so it’s, that’s it. It’s bringing those, the thinking just 

Todd: has to catch up with reality, right? Yes. It’s really about accepting what I have. I have enough money, but I’m still believing. It’s like I often think like [00:16:00] I had a little program running when I was younger and I had less money, and I’m still running that same program now, but the situation has changed, so I have to upgrade that little.

Firmware so that I can catch up with the actual reality right now, which is there’s more available so I can spend a little more within balance. So this is cool to play with, right? It’s the 

Client: thought’s, clearly the thought, right? It’s it’s clearly a lot of thought. It’s about the same subject.

A lot of 

Todd: thoughts. It’s not just one. There’ll be thoughts supporting this one. There’s be, this is how, why, this why I created this Living with Money course with Grace Bell is to just flesh out all the. Stressful thoughts around money and if you can work on it for a lifetime, there’s so many, [00:17:00] but they’re connected and they come together in clumps and as you work through it, it becomes easier.

That’s all just easier. Then it doesn’t have to be as stressful Every time I book a flight or every time I spend money on anything. Yeah. But it’s the process of going through this work so that the part inside that’s still believing gets a chance to see it from a different point of view.

And that’s what the value of finding these examples. Sometimes I have to find many examples before it starts to loosen inside. And so I’m just patient with that. Might. It might be a while. This is one piece of it. Then tomorrow there’ll be another, and tomorrow, the day after, there’ll be another, and over time the whole thing starts to loosen up.

Cool. Thanks for your work. 

Client: Thanks. 

Todd: Any [00:18:00] questions or comments from anyone listening? I.

Or any other question or,

Client 2: yeah, I could say something like, Meg, thank you for your process was really really great to follow it. Yeah. I recognize it a lot in myself as well, so I appreciate it. 

I’m doubting if I’m wanting to say more on that or if I want to just bring in a little other things. Yeah. Yeah, because actually I was also in an issue I was doubting which questions did you work on? So maybe I could just quickly introduce it and then you don’t have time to do the work, but maybe to figure out what would be what do what, what you think might be the best angle. [00:19:00] Okay. So there is this thing I have this little spot on my.

Here and it’s not going away. It’s like yesterday I was talking to a friend and she said, oh, you have some some food there on your tooth. And I said, I on. That’s not true. It’s permanent.

I was at a dentist and he said like he, he could take it away, but it’s not necessary. It’s just it’s just not so beautiful, and so I’ve been struggling with this a bit like at one, and I don’t, I think like our people may be disgusted and. I’m unattractive when I have this.

It’s quite clear. I dunno if you see it well now on the video, but it, you can see it well. And on the other hand, I don’t want to be dependent on my my looks. [00:20:00] I. For instance, I’m getting older anyway. I’m going to get like some wrinkles and I’m gonna get less attractive and everything.

And I don’t want to spend my life like having to fix all these things that make me look less beautiful or whatever.

Yeah. I’m sh should I go from the angle of they think they will be disgusted or they will think I’m unattractive, or should I go from Yeah, I, I don’t want to be dependent on my looks like, or what do you feel? What would be the best angle to approach this? 

Todd: That’s the key.

Like what do you feel? Which one feels closer to the stress of this situation?

Yeah, that’s a good question. Yeah. I [00:21:00] think 

Client 2: I don’t want to be dependent on my looks. Yeah. I think that to feel. To feel good about myself or to feel secure or feel confident. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s the way you would find out which one to approach. Yeah. 

Todd: And these kind of situations where there’s opposing.

Thoughts. You can work on either side or both sides. 

Client 2: Yes. 

Todd: Yeah, also, but the key is what is stressing me. That’s why I said what, listen to your feeling and see which one feels closest to. What’s causing the stress for you. And then if you find that, then just trust that and do the work on that. And then afterwards check, is there any other stress?

Then follow that, and it’s just a iterative process. [00:22:00] 

Client 2: Yeah. Thank you for reminding me of that. Yeah. 

Todd: You’re welcome and thanks for bringing that. It’s a good, very relatable kind of situation, right? That’s the cool thing. The work can go anywhere. It can go anywhere. So you just, if you feel stressed, sit a while and it may become clear. What is the thought? And even if you don’t get it perfectly clear, it’s you can often have a thought that’s close enough. Just start working. And then when you finish that work, see if there’s more stress, then repeat the process and it can just get clearer and clearer over time.

Thank you. Sarah. 

Client: Can I ask a question? 

Todd: Yeah. Meg, 

Client: how do I find more information about your course with Grace Bill? 

Todd: The Living With Money course? Yeah, you can go to the work as meditation.com. Okay. And then go [00:23:00] to the products tab on the top, and then you’ll find Living With Money Course listed there.

And it’s a nice little do it yourself. Course. It’s got about 12 hours of video of people where we did this, recorded it maybe six months ago. And then we’re doing some live sessions right now. So we’ve completed three out of six live sessions and there every Wednesday. So if you sign up now, you can actually take part in the remaining three live sessions.

And it’s a great way to identify more stressful thoughts about money and think about it how to do the work on it. And yeah it’s a nice course 

Client: and the rest is you do it at your own pace. 

Todd: So a little do it yourself. Course you’ve got the videos to watch, and then you have exercises to do, written exercises, and you just fill in the blanks, including the work.

Is it true? How do you react? All that stuff. It just follow the directions and you can you can do a lot of work in [00:24:00] that particular course. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Money’s such a. Such a common thing that stresses us out. We have to deal with money, and so that’s one of the reasons why we created this course just to give some ideas of how to do the work on it.

And there are a lot of different angles that we take in that course.

If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one that you just heard here, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the open sessions page. You can find that under products and you can then sign up for these sessions, learn about how they work, and bring your questions or bring your situations that you’d like to explore by actually doing the work of Byron Katie with me.

While you’re there, I also encourage you to check out the resources that are there. [00:25:00] And one that I’d like to mention, especially in relation to this particular episode, was the Living with Money Course. And this course is available for anyone to work through at their own pace. It’s a very, it’s a way of identifying a lot of stressful thoughts around money.

So if you’re not sure what the stressful thoughts are, but you think you might have a little bit of stress around money, or if you think that there’s some beliefs that are influencing how you interact with money, then this course is a way to flush out those thoughts and start to identify them so that you can actually go through and begin to question those thoughts.

So you’ll find that at the work as meditation.com under the course, living With Money.

Next, I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles called How to Not Be A Burden or Be Burdened. [00:26:00] Heavy Loads are transported across the world every day. What does it mean to be a burden? How to not be a burden or be burdened. My partner and I have lived with my 89-year-old mother-in-law for the past five years.

She has some dementia causing her to forget things, including some basic elements of taking care of herself. We are there to support her. This feels like the right thing to do, and most of the time it doesn’t feel like a burden at all. But here’s where I sometimes feel burdened when she thinks. I don’t want to be a burden.

Taking care of aging family members is nothing new to us. We have been there for my grandmother, for my father-in-law, and my stepfather in different ways. Having to walk slower, having to cook and clean for them, having to be patient with memory issues. These things don’t feel like a burden. It’s why we’re there.[00:27:00] 

But here’s what ironically does feel like a burden at times when the person. Doesn’t want to be a burden and therefore doesn’t accept the help they need, then it becomes more difficult. Not only is there the physical job that needs to be done, but the emotional job of trying to do it while the person is fighting you because they don’t really think they need your help.

That’s a tough one to navigate because helping them means doing what they don’t want you to do. Bathing, eating, taking medicine, et cetera. So my kind of secret advice to myself if I ever get to be that old, is to allow others to take care of me if I need it, to not insist that I’m still fully capable when I’m not, and to loosen my grip on my sense of independence.

I can imagine it would not be easy to do, but I hope with a bit of work I will be able to accept the aging process gracefully. [00:28:00] In the meantime, how to not be burdened. My partner and I did the work recently on the thought she should accept the aging process. Of course, if she did, our jobs would be much easier.

Again, this is a note to my future self, but the reality is that she sometimes doesn’t accept it. How to make peace with this. What we found when going through the four questions and turnarounds meditatively on this statement was that her not accepting the aging process is also a part of her aging process, and we need to accept this.

Why should we be okay with cooking and cleaning, but not be okay with her pretending she doesn’t need our help? A decrease in physical ability and denial of that loss naturally come together, especially in the case of dementia. Ignoring this, we are the ones arguing with reality. [00:29:00] So doing the work on this one statement opened something in my partner and me.

We started seeing even her stubbornness as normal and understandable given her condition. And a growing softness in us is allowing us to be more patient with her. How about you? Where do you feel burdened? Where do you feel like you’re being a burden? In either case, you can question your stressful thoughts and find some balance.

If you feel burdened, maybe you’re not as burdened as you think. If you feel like you’re being a burden. Maybe you’re not as much of a burden as you think. There’s no substitute for doing this. Inquiry yourself, follow your stress and question the thoughts connected to it. It can be surprising and relieving to explore in this way.

And I’ll end with a quote from the book. I Need Your Love. Is it True by Byron Katie? I resented my [00:30:00] mother for being ill for so long. I resented the burden she was for my dad and me. I used to suffer because I thought she was so ungrateful for those of us who sacrificed our lives to take care of her.

After questioning my painful thoughts about her for several months, I realized that I was a fraud. I wasn’t acting out of love for her. I was getting attention for being the suffering good daughter. I was making up this grand story so that people would sympathize with me, and all the time I could barely stand to hear my mother’s voice on the phone.

Once I caught on to my delusions, I was able to see this perfectly beautiful woman who had been ill most of her life, and who was strong and independent and full of love.