Why a Child on Their Phone Triggers HSPs—And How Inner Work Can Rebuild Connection

Client: [00:00:00] I’ve been having like recurring like, um, moments of stress that I notice. Especially with my wife because she uses the phone a lot. It’s like, um, it’s like hard to stay connected to her at times. 

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around and. As I’ve mentioned in other episodes, I especially love taking small everyday situations and looking for the stressful thoughts going on in that moment, and then looking for ways of, of.

Turning that around and seeing that in a different way. For this, we always use the work of Byron Katie, and you’ll get a taste of it. Today. In this episode, I’m Todd Smith and on the program today, [00:01:00] a participant does the work on a situation with his wife, where. She wasn’t paying attention because she was focused on her phone, and so he questions the thought.

I want her out of her phone so we can connect. I found this very interesting and insightful, and I hope you will as well after the, uh, this recording. This is from my open session. Uh, you’ll also hear me reading my newsletter from this week, which is called Unconditional Love plus Direction. So with that, let’s dive into the work of Byron Katie together.

It’s a simple way to question what you think, and here’s the recording from this week’s open session, 

Client: I’ve been having like recurring like, um, moments of stress that I notice, especially with my wife because she uses the phone a lot. It’s like, [00:02:00] um. It’s like hard to stay connected to her at times when it’s needed.

And this particular situation, like we were discussing some important information about a decision that it’s, it’s kind of, it’s going to impact our lives going forward. And like we kind of had an agreement on what we were going to do, but then when it was moment to go out, she like changed the thing completely.

To something that she wanted to do and not what we discussed. So thinking about it, it looks like it’s, it’s related to her using the phone all the time, like gets her distracted and she like, we’re trying to watch a movie and she’ll like, grab her phone and try to like, watch other things. It’s, it’s, it’s like losing that connection.

So the statement that I came out with was that. I want her to stay out of her phone so we can stay more [00:03:00] connected. 

Todd: Okay, great. So, and did that thought come up when she changed her mind and wanted to do something that she wanted to do instead of the agreement, uh, that you had discussed? Or is that coming up more just with, uh, when you’re watching a movie or something?

Or is it both? It. 

Client: It’s both. And like I came up with it because it’s not, she’s not realizing about it. She, for her, like it looks like what we talked about, what it’s, what she was thinking that we talked about and not what we actually talked about and agreed on. I came, like looking at the situation itself, I, I see that it’s actually her being just distracted with the phone and doing other things and you know, like the conversation is not really there.

Todd: Yeah. 

Client: So once, once it comes the time like to, to say something about the conversation or something, she just like [00:04:00] builds that right away in her mind. And then that’s what we talked about. So it’s not. It is not the reality. Got it. Of it. Got it. 

Todd: Okay, so remind me your statement again. 

Client: I want my wife to stay out of her phone.

Okay. So we can connect. 

Todd: So is that true?

Client: Yeah, definitely. 

Todd: Hmm. And and you absolutely know it’s true, you want her to stay out of her phone so you can connect.

Client: Yep. Okay. 

Todd: So how do you react, for example, when she changes what you agreed to, to something different and you have the thought? I want her to stay out of her phone.

Client: I get [00:05:00] angry. I start sweating like I feel. Weak. I feel like I can see the stress coming out right there in that moment.

I can see images from the past, a lot of images when that happened yesterday, the day before, and I’d like start building that up when she just like watching the phone and not actually connecting. Not doing what we were doing at the time.

I feel, I think I feel responsible for that too, for some reason for giving her the phone. I dunno, that crosses my mind, so I feel powerless because no [00:06:00] matter. How many times I say it, it’s like it doesn’t change. It’s like it just keeps repeating.

So yeah, I feel like powerless ’cause I feel like I should have do something about it, but nothing that I do seems to work. It’s just like that keeps just happening and happening over, over and over again. So, yeah, I just feel really powerless in that situation. 

Todd: And how do you treat her specifically when you, when you think I want her out of her phone so we can connect and you see her?

She was not paying attention.

Client: Not good. Like sometimes I just don’t say anything. Like I just reject her right away. Like.

Because that seems like [00:07:00] the only way that she actually pays attention a little bit and see like, oh, I’m doing something wrong or something.

So yeah, it’s almost like I shut down right away and I don’t want, I don’t wanna talk to her anymore. I don’t wanna do anything. I just, yeah, I just don’t want to do anything at that moment.

Todd: And what happens inside of your body and your emotions? Do you notice anything there? I want her out of her phone.

Client: Yeah. I can feel like, I don’t know if it’s adrenaline pumping in, I don’t know what it is, but I can feel like, like the blot. I’m moving faster than usual, just like rushing a little bit.[00:08:00] 

I feel like a little bit anxious too. Sometimes I just go and eat something ’cause it’s, even if I just ate something, it feels like I, I’m hungry. So it’s like anxiety just kicks in right away. Yeah. In my mind, I’m blaming her a lot too. You know, it’s not, it’s like I’m trying to figure out why, why she keeps doing it, and it’s like, I’m, I never find an answer for it.

It’s like,

so I blame her for, for doing that and for not spending the time that we have and focusing on that instead of her phone and the things on her phone. So.

Yeah. 

Todd: So as always we see the effect of this thought. [00:09:00] Right. I want her out of her phone so we can connect and all the reactions you’ve described here. So who would you be without the thought? I want her out of her phone so we can connect. And let’s take the moment that you first described where. You had an agreement and then at the last minute she changes it to something different that she wanted to do.

And before you were thinking, oh, it’s because of her phone. I want her out of her phone so we can connect. Who would you be in that very moment when she changes the agreement if you didn’t have the thought? I want her out of her phone.

Client: Would I be,[00:10:00] 

I feel like there’s no reaction if I’m in that moment without the thought, I, I’m not being triggered by it.

It almost feels like a different, like a different situation when when you’re in the street and you say, oh, let’s go left, and the other person say, let’s go. Right? And you just make the decision to go to go either way. It’s like there’s nothing more than that. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Client: Yeah. It 

Todd: feels that thought. Yeah, as soon as I think I want her out of her phone, then it’s going into that past situation and end future, but trying to control how she acts and like the whole thing.

But if that’s not there, it’s more simple. [00:11:00] 

Client: Yeah. Because in my mind, I’m always trying to do something about it, like trying to grab the phone and don’t let her touch it or. Something like that, but without it, it’s like that’s her, like if that’s what she wants to do, like I’ll just do what I wanna do, then that’s okay.

Todd: And what do you see when you look at her, when you really look at her without the thought? I want her out of her phone so we can connect. What do you see?

Client: I see a distracted person.

That’s it. Person that is distracted and I can,[00:12:00] 

Hmm, that’s interesting. ’cause I can see that in my daughter too. And she’s not busy with her phone, so,

so I just see someone that got distracted and just didn’t pay attention to the conversation. Hmm. And nothing more than that. Just,

yeah, just like when you watch a movie and you get distracted. And he is just like, don’t see what happened. That’s it. Like nothing more than that. And she, that’s, I see that she’s not doing it on purpose. Like she’s not doing anything to not be there. She’s just, for whatever reason, just [00:13:00] gone for a moment or something.

And. Hmm.

That’s interesting. 

Todd: Yeah. So without the thought Yeah, the, the awareness opens a bit, it’s a different view a little bit. Mm-hmm. So. Same situation. One is more stressful, one is less stressful, depending on if you have the thought or don’t have the thought and want her out of her phone. 

Client: Right? And I can feel that.

’cause as soon as like the notification starts coming in, like I’m getting triggered right away, like little by little until I know that’s gonna happen, that’s gonna come next. And I’m like thinking, oh, she should stay out [00:14:00] or form. Her phone, but I realize that I’m trying to like do something for her. Like if she wants to do that, that’s her business, not mine.

But in my mind, I’m trying to not be on the phone for her. So that, that feels confusing. 

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So who would you be, let’s take another situation. Who would you be in the moment when you’re with her and the notifications start coming in on her phone, like text or what, whatever it is. Who would you be when she starts turning to her phone in the moment when you’re with her?

If you didn’t have the thought, I want her out of her phone so we can connect.[00:15:00] 

Client: I would stay relaxed. Like

the trigger is not there if I’m not thinking about it. Like if, if the phone rings or notification comes in and she goes and look at it, it’s.

That’s fine. I’m not. Hmm. I noticed that as soon as I start thinking about it, there’s a judgment that comes on top of it right away. Hmm. Judging her for doing it, like if she was doing something wrong. 

Todd: Right. 

Client: But if I’m not thinking about it, then there’s no judgment at all. It is just someone watching a notification on the phone or like looking at it that’s, and in this world that, that happens a lot.

That be weird [00:16:00] or rare. 

Todd: Yeah. So you can see it’s the, it’s the thought again that I want her out of the phone. If I, if I have the want for her to be out of the phone and then she goes on the phone, then the stress begins. But if that. If that isn’t there, that’s just her going on the phone. Nothing wrong is happening.

Client: Right, that’s true. 

Todd: So how would you turn this thought around?

Client: How would I turn it around? I, I think I would say, I want me to stay out of her phone. Hmm. Okay. And that feels like so true. I feel like before she actually looks at it, I’m the one like already in the phone before she even looks at it. Like [00:17:00] just with the, like a notification comes in and I’m already there and she’s not yet, so I’m jumping in right away.

So I can definitely see that happening a lot. 

Todd: Yeah.

So, 

Client: yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Keep going with that. 

Client: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It looks like it’s, it’s me because I get triggered right away, the one that focuses on the phone. Hmm. That made me think that I’m doing that. So. The connection that I’m asking about is actually gone because of me and not because of her.

It’s ironic. That’s funny.

I never looked at it that way. It was like, oh, it’s hurt. [00:18:00] 

Todd: Yeah, 

Client: but that makes a lot of sense. Like sometimes she doesn’t even like look at it. As soon as I hear it, I’m the one that gets triggered and I’m the one, like if I’m looking at her phone right away.

That’s interesting. Very interesting. 

Todd: And then, and then the connection is gone even before she looks at her phone. 

Client: Right. And I’m the one that is breaking that connection before she even starts or thinks about. Cutting it off, like I’m the one doing it. 

Todd: Right. Right. So I want, I want me out of her phone so we can connect.

Client: Right. That one is a good one. [00:19:00] I can’t see the difference right away before I jump into it and blame her. For grabbing her phone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I’m grabbing it with my mind and checking who’s there, what it is, like what’s gonna happen. Hmm. Exactly. 

Todd: Trying to avoid it. Trying to control it. It’s like, and then the focus is on the phone instead of the connection that is there.

Client: Right. I’m gone at that moment. When that happens, I’m the one that’s gone. And then I’m actually waiting. Huh. That’s interesting. ’cause once that happens, I’m mentally gone. I’m not there anymore. And then I’m just waiting for her to do it so I can blame her for doing it. That’s,

oh my God. To see it’s like, it’s like I’m getting ready. I’m the one that [00:20:00] disconnected. And then I’ll say, oh no, it was you, not me, it was you. 

Todd: Right. So this can be a kind of living turnaround. Something you can, can, can do in situations like this is to like, I want me out of her phone so we can reconnect. I, so I can actually keep that in mind as something to.

To try on like, oh, am I on her phone again? You might be on her phone more than she’s on her phone. I don’t know. 

Client: I think that’s true every time, because like I have that building up, building up, building up. It’s like as soon as I hear it, I, I get triggered right away. It’s like, ugh, here it goes again. And like, you’re right, I’m probably more on her phone than what she is.

Tot, I can totally see that 

Todd: exactly. Like the phone might be off and I’m still thinking about that phone. 

Client: Yeah, that’s [00:21:00] true. Like I’ve even like charged it right here, right next to me. I. And I’m looking at the phone and I’m like, uh, blaming the phone too for being there. Just charging.

Oh my God. 

Todd: Yeah. So this is a good one. Like, I want me out of her phone. Let me just get out of her phone. So, so we can connect. 

Client: And it’s so interesting ’cause I never saw myself in that situation. Like it’s, it was always her. She’s the one disconnected. She’s the one doing that. Like she’s the one looking at her messages.

But you’re right, I get disconnected right away. Like as soon as, as soon as it rings or vibrates or whatever, like I’m there. 

Todd: Yeah. You took the call right away? Yeah, 

Client: I took the, the call before anybody. Wow. That’s interesting. That’s really interesting. [00:22:00] 

Todd: Cool. So is there any other turnaround? I want her out of her phone so we can connect.

Client: I don’t want her out of her phone. Mm-hmm. And that makes sense too because she, she doesn’t have to be out of her phone to connect. We’ve done that before. Like that’s,

that’s that. That’s not a limitation for her to connect. 

Todd: Okay. What, is there any, any supporting evidence for that, that, that she doesn’t have to be out of her phone in order for you to connect? 

Client: Well, she can’t, I can’t see her every day. She has to like, take care of both her kids and like, and [00:23:00] one is a toddler.

The other one is a teenager, so that that’s rough enough. Like the combination of situations is like pretty tough. And she does that every day, takes care of absolutely everything. And then even with checking her phone and everything, she has time to connect with them, with me, with everybody in the house.

Let’s talk a lot of things. No, she can’t even cook. Yeah. Like with all the craziness going on, that’s, yeah, that’s definitely true. She doesn’t have to stay out of it. She can do plenty of things at the same time, including connecting with me and with her kids, so that’s interesting. 

Todd: Yeah. She may have that capacity to.

To handle many things. Um, who knows? Maybe more than you even [00:24:00] 

Client: maybe. Yeah, I think that’s, that comes in like a little bit of comparison too, ’cause I can’t do that at all. Like if I have the phone ringing at all times and try to do something, I can go back and forth and switch that fast like she does and takes care of everything.

I’ll have to be focused on one and then move to the next one. I prefer doing that, rather, but 

Todd: yeah, that’s true. So isn’t that what the mind does? It takes my own experience and then imagines that it’s the same for the other person, but it may not be the same. And then it uses the proof. If she misses one thing, if.

Then that’s the proof that she’s doing it wrong. She should have done it my way because I know what works for me. But then the problem is I don’t really know what works for her. It may not be, uh, she may [00:25:00] only miss like a little bit, and the mind tells you, oh my gosh, this, she’s probably missing a whole lot because Yeah.

Of being on her phone. 

Client: And that’s what started building it up too. Now that I, now that you mentioned that, I can see how those little situations, she could be doing a hundred things and then if she missed one, then I’ll, I’ll blame it on the phone too. Like, oh, you missed that one. It is like, I’m waiting for her to miss something so I can put a mark on it.

Like, oh, you see? Yeah, that’s the phone you see right here. 

Todd: You’re building a case, you know, you’re looking for another proof, another proof, another proof. And then you have this case and you’re like, see, it’s so clear. Your phone is the real problem. That’s true. And it might be she’s like getting 97% like perfect except just 3%.

She, she. [00:26:00] Was not there and But you found the weak point and you nailed her. 

Client: That’s true. Oh my God, you’re right. And I’m like waiting for that moment to happen. So I can’t even validate my case a lot more. It’s like, oh, you see, I told you. You see? It’s like in my mind it’s like, oh, you see, that’s true. What you’re thinking is true.

Wow. 

Todd: Exactly. So this was all under the, the turnaround. I don’t want her out of her phone. So we can connect. Any other examples for you for that turnaround? 

Client: Like there is a simple one that I didn’t think about. It’s like it’s her business, so like it doesn’t make any sense for me to want something for her if she doesn’t want it herself.

Like it’s, it’s up to her to decide if she wants to look at it or not, or if she wants to receive a call or not. [00:27:00] Not me. Like, yeah, I can’t see that how I’m, I’m being in her business when I jump to that conclusion that she, that I want her to stay out of her phone. Like she can, she’s a grown woman so she can make her own decisions for, it’s been a long time ago.

She, she started doing it, so it’s, I’m trying to control that. 

Todd: Always stressful to try to control someone else how they think, what they do. It’s, it’s stressful and usually not very, not very nice also for them. So 

Client: yeah, that’s true. 

Todd: So are there any advantages of her being on her phone when you’re together?

Sometimes. Is there any good in it? 

Client: There are a lot of advantages. Like I can watch some movies that I [00:28:00] otherwise wouldn’t watch because we’ll have to balance it out and she’ll say like, oh, let’s watch this movie and this one, if she’s like that, I can watch any movie I want. ’cause like she will barely pay attention to it, so it doesn’t matter.

I get to enjoy what I wanna wanna watch, 

Todd: so. Great. I don’t want her out of her phone so we can connect. 

Client: And I can watch the movies that I want or the series that I want.

Todd: Yeah. And even when she, um, changed, like she, you had kind of an agreement you thought, and then she didn’t really remember it because she was on the phone or something and then she just changed it to, or just said what she thought it was, which is something new like. Is that, um, is that the end of the world?

Is that going to be like, uh, is there, is there a big problem with that [00:29:00] or is it okay if she was like on her phone and missed that piece? 

Client: It’s simply that she missed it because she was on her phone. Or, you know, she is distracted too, so her mind can just go somewhere else, even if she’s not holding the phone at all.

Mm-hmm. I’m just like connecting all that and putting it on the phone. But you’re right, it’s, it’s okay. Like it doesn’t matter. I can just repeat to her what the agreement is or what we wanna do, and that’s it. Like there wouldn’t be any more than that, you know? 

Todd: Yeah. And if it’s the first time she’s hearing it because she was kind of not there before then you, that discussion can happen right there.

We can say, okay, well this is what I was thinking. This is what, uh, what do you think? Do you, do you agree? Do you have some other idea? Quick discussion. And now [00:30:00] we have an agreement right now, so. It doesn’t depend on her having the agreement in the past. 

Client: Right. And it’s, it’s also not something that we have to like, make the decision right away, you know, it’s not something that has a deadline of, or when we had the conversation or something.

It’s, it’s something that we can like, talk through and just like decide later on, or even change our opinions later on too. That is not related to what we talked about. So it’s okay to be open in that situation too. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So we’re kind of out of time here, but there is another turnaround that I think we kind of touched on and that was, I want me out of my phone so we can connect and, and I think what I remember you saying was something like.

For me, it’s, [00:31:00] it works better when I do one thing at a time and just focus on that. So that’s like my business when I do that. For me, that works really well. The only problem is if I think my way is good for her, then, then I’m trying to control her, which is like totally in her business and very um.

Stressful. ’cause it’s not possible to, to control somebody in that way. Yeah. So then it’s like I have my way, she has her way and we find our ways together that, uh. It’s not one way for everyone. That’s true. 

Client: Yeah. That’s really helpful. Thank you. 

Todd: Yeah. Thank you Adam. Thank you. If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one we just heard, then go to the work as meditation.com.

Then, uh, you’ll find the open [00:32:00] sessions link there and you can go to that page, see the upcoming schedule and sign up. And you’re welcome to bring your questions, to bring your situations that you’d like to do the work in and join you there.

Next I’m going to read one of my newsletter articles, and this is called Unconditional Love plus Direction.

An open-hearted gardener is not disturbed by weeds yet she pulls them out in favor of the flowers She accepts. The state of the garden yet keeps working to improve it. Unconditional love plus direction. People come to the work of Byron Katie with different levels of interest and resistance. In fact, each time I sit to do the work myself, I have a different level of interest and resistance, and it is also true for those who might facilitate [00:33:00] and for those who take my courses.

So how can I meet each person in a way that is appropriate for that person in that particular moment? The most important part for me is unconditional love. When someone comes to do the work, they’re. Sharing something vulnerable. They’re sharing the part of them that is stuck or confused or angry, and this takes courage.

So my number one job is to meet them with understanding literally anything is welcome. There’s nothing too painful, too shameful, too trivial, too taboo. The more I’ve done the work on my own, the more I can see myself and anyone that I do the work with. I’m not shocked when they bring. Something really scary or something really trivial or something really, um, uh, just like deep for them.

So instead of focusing on what they’re [00:34:00] bringing, I’m focused more on who they’re bringing, who is bringing it. And for me, this feels like love. It’s kind of like a, uh, it’s unconditional kind of love, which creates a space which feels very safe. So even when I’m not facilitating, being with people this way also feels really good.

Um, sometimes Byron Katie says, love is the power. And I, I also believe that, that if there’s enough love, any troubles can melt away even without the work. The work is like. Extra. Um, but if love is there, anything can be dealt with. And so that’s the way I like to hold clients, hold students, be with people who are interested in doing the work, but people also come to do the work, not just to be held.

And so both in private sessions and in the work 1 0 1, which is my ongoing course for. Or my, um, [00:35:00] nine week course for doing the work, learning the work. Um, in these courses or in private sessions, people want to do the work of Byron Katie, and this is, has a specific, uh, format to it. So while meeting them with love and acceptance is the most important thing for me, uh, giving them the work is also important.

And this is the balance point to unconditional love. So yes, everything is welcome here. Yes, I understand your suffering. Yes. I want to, uh, you to find your truths as we work together your own truths. I’m not here to teach you like I’m here in a loving capacity, but I. No, let’s not go down that rabbit hole and no, that’s not actually a turnaround.

And no, you’re actually beating yourself up right here, which is not the purpose of the work. And no, you’re defending your own, uh, stance here rather than looking [00:36:00] for the role you play in your own suffering. These nos are as important as the yeses. And this is what I sometimes think of as the razor’s edge of holding someone in the work.

At the same time that I’m allowing anything to show up and welcoming it with open arms, I’m also saying, let’s stick to this process of questioning. And when we deviate, let’s come back to it. So why this firmness? Because answering the questions is what loosens the attachment to suffering. Byron Katie often says the work works when you answer the questions, or she actually says it the other way.

The work stops working when you stop answering the questions. So I could just sit and listen to you as you complain, and I, I can do that, but we can do so much more together if we go through these questions and see what they can do as you start to explore your own, your own experience. [00:37:00] When I hold you in the questions, and sometimes stubbornly keep asking them in different ways.

I’m saying, look over here, could the opposite of what you believe be true? I’m asking you to feel your way along the walls of your darkened prison cell, which happens to have an open door that you can’t see. And by the way, I can’t see it either, but I know there’s one there. I know that if you keep feeling your way along the wall, just like a totally blind, eventually you’re gonna stumble upon that open door.

So the direction is this. Keep exploring, keep feeling your way in the dark. Yes, I hear you about how much it hurts, and I’m here for you, but keep feeling your way along the wall. Have you walked along all four walls yet? Which one would you like to explore next? But sometimes you may just give up and that’s okay too.

That’s when [00:38:00] unconditional love is there for you. Again, if you don’t want to explore anymore, you don’t have to. If you want to sit where you are, we don’t even have to do the work. But when you rest for a while, I will probably ask you again, and that’s what love does also. I can’t give you freedom. No one can.

But I can patiently, lovingly, invite you to keep looking wherever or whenever, uh, you have the energy to do some more.

Okay, so are you ready to start exploring? Um, join us for the Work one oh Ones online course and get familiar with this process of exploration. You’ll learn the process by doing it, and in that it’s an experiential thing. The work is a meditation. You can’t talk about it. You have to actually do it. And of course, in this course, you’ll be met with unconditional love.

You don’t even have to finish the course. We’re just, we’re here [00:39:00] however you want to use it. But you’ll also be invited over and over again to look here and there, and here and there. What you will discover, I don’t know, but there’s a good chance that you will find some open doors in rooms where you thought there was no hope for escape.

And here’s a quote from Byron Katie, the founder of the work and from her book, question Your Thinking, change the World. I do the work with you because you think you need it. I don’t have any such thought. I love you just the way you are.