Why Parenting Triggers HSPs—And How Inner Work Helps You Stay Calm When Kids Push Boundaries

Client: [00:00:00] But I was actually writing an email to you about doing the work, and I had a jar of green juice next to me, and I’m typing this and the work is on my mind. And my 12-year-old had a VR set on and moves his hand, knocks the green juice all over my laptop, all over me, all over the couch. And Frys, my laptop.

And of course I go, oh, look how beautiful that looks of, that’s how, right, no, I get up, I scream, what the hell I told you to do the VR in the basement. He starts crying. Go get the, don’t, just scan it. Literally screaming, right? Trying to get the computer. And even in that minute, because I was, I had the work on my mind and I’m thinking, oh, he wasn’t supposed to spill the juice.

Is that true? Of course this is true. He spilled the juice, of course, because it happened last.

Todd: Welcome to Wiggle [00:01:00] Room, a podcast where we start with stress and look for ways to turn it around. In today’s episode, we have a. Special format, different than usual. And this is, uh, someone who invited me to be on her podcast and did, uh, an interview with me, asked a ton of really interesting questions, and actually did the work with me, um, for on herself.

So. We had some really excellent, uh, things to share and she, she said, if you would like to share this on your podcast, you’re welcome to do so as well. So I want to thank, uh, my host, which is Michelle Dutton and from Chicago, and she has been doing the work for a while and she actually took the work 1 0 1 course and she’s, um, doing a cool podcast.

Her podcast is called, my Life is a Total Shift Show. [00:02:00] Notice the spelling of the word shift. And, uh, she, she is so down to earth, so much fun. She, uh, says this is all about, her show is all about, um, like diving into to like, in the chaos of life, like trying to be zen while like swearing, like a sailor and like losing it all.

So she’s not, she’s not like. Any kind of mood making, uh, approach to enlightenment and spirituality and growth and all of that. She’s just so feet on the ground and down to earth. And for that reason, it just made for a very interesting discussion. ’cause that’s the way I also like to be. And although I may not lose my shift quite as much, I don’t know.

So anyway, I wanted to share this with you. Uh, I hope you’ll enjoy it. The recording is, uh, about an hour and seven minutes, so we’ll go through probably a. 45 minutes or [00:03:00] longer of, of questions and answers, really interesting questions. And then, uh, at the end there’s, uh, a really interesting piece of work.

She does the work on a situation where her son spilled a green drink all over her keyboard of her laptop, and it made her just explode. And so, uh, we identified the thought, it’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful. And you’ll see when she does her work, uh, what she discovered. So with that, let me uh, just start the recording for you and I hope you’ll enjoy, uh, the time here with Michelle.

Client: I would.

Hey,

Todd: thank you, Michelle. It’s great to be here.

Client: So I chose you because I went on a retreat with you or a, a workshop with you, and I really learned a lot about the work, and so I thought you would be a great person to talk about it. So [00:04:00] if you wouldn’t mind, why don’t you give us a little introduction of who you are and a brief introduction of what Byron Katie’s the work is and how you got involved in that.

Todd: Okay, great. Yeah. Um, so I am, or have always been kind of a seeker type person. Um, I’ve been into meditation since I was six, and I’ve been like, sort of, I’ve lived, I’ve lived in an ashram for a little while. You know, like I’ve sort of done all the, the off the map kind of, uh, approaches to, um, just to, to one’s own personal growth.

And I’ve always been interested in that, fascinated with that. And it was somewhere in my thirties, that late thirties, I think that. Um, that my partner recommended a book by Byron Katie called Loving What Is, which I highly recommend to anyone who is interested in this. It gives a really complete, uh, detailed description of this process.

Um, and so I [00:05:00] discovered it. Yeah. Sort of, um, around that time. And when I read the book, it was like something really resonated with me. I’m like, yeah, that’s, that’s what I’m looking for. Yeah. That, that, that, that. And I, I kept kind of pinching myself as I was reading. ’cause I’m like, yeah, I would really like to get into this.

And, um, what it is, is just really a, in a way, a very simple thing. Like I start with some kind of stressful. Situation of which we can all find plenty. I’m sure I know. They, they crop up all the time in my life. And when I first started, those situations were really big. Like I was really in a bad place with my partner.

I was not sure what was gonna happen. Um, I was, I was really stressed. Um, and so it can work on those big stressors, uh, but it can also work on those little tiny stressors or medium sized ones that come up in, in daily life. So I do [00:06:00] the work kind of on a daily basis, just as a, as my meditation practice or one of my meditation practices.

And, uh, and I’m always looking for what’s the next little, little trigger, some little thing, oh, rubbed me wrong. And, and just that, just getting in the, in the practice of noticing when something gets you and being like, oh, this will be interesting to work. Let me see where, where this goes. Just that already is.

Is amazing. That’s bringing awareness to where I was probably not aware. So that’s kind of a theme here. It’s like more awareness as I, uh, as I do this work, but then to go further with it, what the, what the actual doing the work is, if you can call it doing the work, is then you go through these. Three, these four questions and turnarounds, uh, for a, for a statement.

So you find what’s bothering you, the situation, then you find what you’re thinking. Actually write it down like he is disrespecting me. So you write [00:07:00] down, he is disrespecting me. And then you go through these questions. Is it true? Can you absolutely know it’s true? How do you react when you believe that thought?

And who would you be without the thought? And those, I went through those quickly. But that’s a meditative process. You want to actually spend, you know, a few minutes on each question and let the answers come up. From inside. And this starts to open the mind and starts to show you different like perspectives actually.

Um, it shows you how it hurts when you believe that thought. And if you didn’t have the thought, it might be less, uh, stressful. And so then you go and you try to turn the thought around and see if there’s any opposites, and then see if there’s any truth in those opposite points of view. Um, so he didn’t respect me.

I didn’t respect myself. Like that’s an opposite. So how could that be going on? Or I didn’t respect him. How could that be a part of the equation? Or he did respect me. How am I, how am I, am I missing [00:08:00] something that I thought was for sure? He was just not respecting me. So this work, in essence, is about, um, expanding one’s perspective, looking around the edges and seeing if there’s any wiggle room, as I call it, um, to, to experience the same situation in a different way.

So, yeah, that’s a, that’s the short version of it, but it is, it is an amazing little process.

Client: That’s great. And what can you, what can you expect? So you do a worksheet. Let’s say you have an argument with your partner and you say, maybe I’m not respecting him. And, and at the end of it, what, what can you expect when you’re done with a worksheet?

Like, are we just all levitating and, you know, zen.

Todd: And expect nirvana, you’re just gonna be floating forever.

Client: One worksheet and you’re done. That’s awesome. It’s one and done. That’s why we’re, that’s why I’m on it. Oh, that would be wonderful. [00:09:00]

Todd: I’ve been doing this work for 15 years and, um, one of the things Byron Katie likes to say, and I totally agree with that, is that it’s a process.

This is a process, and I don’t think this process is ever gonna be quote unquote done. Um, I always tell people when I’m in my nineties and I’m in a nursing home, I’m still gonna be writing I little worksheets and doing the work just because I like it. I like how I feel when I do it. It, it softens me a bit.

And so it’s not, it’s not nirvana. It’s not like instant enlightenment, but it is incremental little enlightenments, you know, each one you time I see something differently and realize that, that it wasn’t as. Dire. I thought something relaxes in me. Something opens. And these little openings, you know, it’s like little snowflakes falling, like each one just, just releases a little bit, a little bit, a [00:10:00] little bit.

And over time it accumulates. Uh, and, and they’re kind of connected. Once I see, oh, that’s a d in that situation, I was, I was really not looking at that in a accurate way. Then another situation comes up that’s similar, the mind remembers that and it’s like, oh, well maybe I should just check and see if that’s really true or not, uh, before I get totally upset about it.

So that’s my experience is that I get triggered less often and I get triggered less, less deeply, um, than I used to. That doesn’t mean that I don’t get triggered. Absolutely not. It’s, that’s a daily thing, but it’s, it’s like becomes subtler and, and, um. So, yeah, it’s a practice. It’s a practice.

Client: That’s a great, and that leads me to this next question because this is one thing that I struggled with.

I have had that experience too, where I’ve done the work on something and after, when I get to [00:11:00] the end, like, well, I could have just put the shoes away, um, instead of screaming at my kids about it and the, the thoughts about they should, and this is how my children should react. And once I work through that, it does help the next time.

But one of the struggles is when I first found Byron Katie, it was just like, well, you just put one thought on a piece of paper. Right. And that was so overwhelming to me in the beginning, because there are. Thousands of stressful thoughts that I can think of. And so for me it was so intimidating to be like, I, I’m gonna be in the work 24 hours a day, seven days a week because there, everything pisses me off.

Everything stresses me out. So if I start picking up out the one guy at the, I’m never going to get through it. So what, what is some advice as to like this huge mountain makes, made me wanna go? [00:12:00] Screw, screw that. I’m just gonna drink a glass of wine. ’cause that also makes my problem. How can you, that.

Todd: Yeah, that, that is a common experience.

And, and if you get into the work, I’ll just exaggerate that a little bit for you. If you get into the work, you do a piece of work, and then you’ll often find other related beliefs that come connected to that. So it could be absolutely infinite, um, no end to the number of stressful thoughts that you could end up, um, you know, seeing and all our potential to, to do the work on.

Now, that does not sound practical at all because I have to then, what I’m gonna do, like go live in an ashram, right? I’m gonna go like, give up my life and, and just focus on that. I mean, it sounds nice, but it’s really not gonna work for, for most of us. And in my experience, it’s not necessary as well. Um, the analogy I sometimes use is like, if you’re in a burning building, there are [00:13:00] many escape routes.

Like you can go out this window, this door, this. Back staircase, you can, like, there’s many different escape routes. You do not have to go through all of them to get out of the burning building. So we kind of think, oh, because there’s so many stressful thoughts, I have to work all of them in order to feel more peaceful.

And that’s just not true. Um, you work one of them, and in my experience, I start to feel more peaceful and that’s enough. It’s more peaceful. This is not perfection. This is not like I’m gonna get to that nirvana again where I’m like, nothing ever bothers me. Like, no, let’s just take one step here and be satisfied with that.

If I’m doing one little step like that every day or every week or whenever I, I want to, um, that is, um, it’s radical. It’s huge. It’s, it’s worth it. Um, and so I like to look at it that way as again, as a process and as [00:14:00] something. That I do because, uh, I’m, I’m curious about this situation and I’m gonna see what I can learn from it.

Um, so I guess the way I look at it is I’ll scan my world when I wanna do the work, and I’ll say, what do I wanna work on? And I just pick one of them. I tend to go towards the one that’s bothering me the most, but there might be 15. So I just pick one. And really anyone will do. That’s the beauty of it.

Client: That’s wonderful. Yeah. And I think, I know I struggle with the, the timeframe. There’s something in me that, when I was listening to Michael Singer talk, I don’t know if you know who he is, but he’s the author of The Untethered Soul. He talked about resting and releasing and questioning and all that. And he goes, yeah.

And after, you know. Five years, you start to get, I’m like five fricking years, you know? So we have this idea that we have to fix ourselves and then we can [00:15:00] live our life. Like we have to get enlightened, get all of our shadow work done, do all the questioning. Mm-hmm. And then we’re happy and we can move on.

I think that’s where I was, and I still struggle with that. Like, so just integrating the, that it’s just a lifestyle. It’s not just where you’re, you have to fix and then live. It’s, you’re living while you’re fixing, I think.

Todd: Right, right. We, that’s so easy to fall into. And I have totally fallen into that.

Like, that was, that was my life in the beginning was like, I’m gonna get enlightened and then I’m gonna live my life. You know? And it just, like, it’s, it’s, yeah, it doesn’t really work that way in my experience. Um, so what I love is to think of it more as something that. To try out. This is what I suggest to people who are new to this.

Like, try it out, see if it resonates with you. Like if it doesn’t resonate, don’t worry. There’s a million things you can do that can make your life better and more enjoyable. [00:16:00] But for some of us, this process really resonates. So if that’s, if that’s your experience, then then just do it as, um, because you seem to enjoy it.

Like just notice that this is something that you like and give that to yourself from time to time. And that way it becomes, um, more of, of. Yeah, like the, the emphasis is on doing something that I enjoy rather than on something I have to get done because it’s a lot of work and I want to get over it and then get to the good stuff.

Like, no, this, if you look at it, kind of turn it around in a way. This could be the good stuff. And I often find that, so I actually start my day, uh, ev every weekday morning anyway. Um, ’cause this is kind of part of my job, but it’s the first thing I do in the morning is, is sit down and just do a piece of work, whatever it might be.

And I notice just a softening in my heart, an opening, and it’s just a [00:17:00] great way to start the day. So I, I like it that way. It reminds me also of like, you know, we do other things like exercise and, um, I, I love to exercise. Sometimes it’s hard to fit in. Sometimes it’s, you know, there’s all kinds of different resistances.

But basically when it comes down to it, I like to do it. I would never say, I’m gonna try to get all my exercise done in the first third of my life. And then the other. Next two thirds, I’m not gonna do any exercise. It’s, it’s something that balances me. So the work is like that.

Client: That’s a great way to look at it.

Or even, you know, if you going for a walk is exercise. So you can, it’s kind of the label you can put on, it can also shape your, the way you think about it. Oh, I have to do the work, or I have to go on a treadmill. You can look at it as I do, I enjoy it because it makes me react to people. I’m nicer, I’m kinder.

I love that you can, if only I’m just gonna do all my breathing in the first hour of the day and then I don’t have to [00:18:00] breathe anymore. Right. That’s a great, thank you for that insight. But like, yeah, you don’t have to try to, it’s just, it becomes part of things you enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. Because I do struggle with that.

And that’s my next question I think for you is I’ll watch Byron Katie’s videos or I’ll listen to her podcast and I feel so. When I’m watching her do the work with someone and I can get into it and I feel great, and then I’m like, all right, I am gonna do the work. And so I get my worksheet and I sit down and I’m like, nothing is bothering me.

Like I can’t. And I’ve tried, I made it where, you know, I get up and I do my meditation. I have like a little schedule for myself, 30 minutes of the work of Byron Katie. And I’ll sit there and I’ll get my worksheet and literally nothing comes to mind. Or I try to get something and it’s like, well that’s just stupid, you know?

Of course you’re not, of course, of course you don’t need to work on that ’cause you’re an idiot. So, and I really have struggled with that. So what [00:19:00] is some advice you have about. I know it feels so good when I do it, and I don’t know, maybe that’s the resistance. Maybe that’s where I can start with the questioning, but it seems I have a hard time actually pinpointing, I go all day losing my shit with my kids and flicking off the people in the car.

But when I sit down and do the work, none of that comes to mind. I don’t know if it’s just my fear of getting deeper. I don’t, what do you think about that?

Todd: Yeah. Well, it’s a very common experience as well. Um, and, and so, um, there can be, there can be several aspects to this, but, but it’s probably, um, in some ways it’s one of the, one of the main reasons people don’t do the work is because they think that, uh, basically they’re, they’re thinking they have to do the work on something really.

Deep and important. It has to be really charged, and it has to be, uh, they have to be feeling really angry or, you know, the situation has to be [00:20:00] really clear. Like you can end up, um, waiting, uh, or basically it passes really quickly. Like, I get angry at somebody and then it passed and I dealt with it and I’m done with it.

I moved on and I, I don’t think, uh, oh, I could do the work on that. I’m like, oh no, I’m done with that. But if you want to, you can go back to that situation that you’re done with and, and still look at the situation. Write a judge your neighbor worksheet, which is one of the ways we identify these stressful thoughts.

Um, just write some of those stressful thoughts down about that situation and go back there to the place where you were when you got triggered. So it’s like. Moving back in time and then re-experiencing it and then, and then uh, seeing if you can work through it at that point, because the mind’s really good at, uh, just dealing with stuff and pushing it aside and moving on.

And then what happens is you come into a similar [00:21:00] situation next week and it reacts the same way because it hasn’t really evolved that much and it just compartmentalizes that and moves on. So we then life is sort of like this, yo-yo up and down of like, oh yeah, I got triggered. Oh no, I’m over it. And then I got triggered again over it.

The work is like saying, okay, let’s go back to the moment when you got triggered and see if. If there’s anything that you could learn from that moment, you know, is there anything you could see in that moment and when you slow down and do that? In my experience, I often, uh, it’s, it’s like that whole reactive experience starts to get, um, like, it, it loses its, its basis.

Uh, I start not having a reason to, to react that way. And then I don’t have to remember the results or anything from my work. I just forget what work I did. I go back into life. And ironically, or not ironically, I guess just as it were, [00:22:00] the, a different situation will come up that’s similar and sometimes I just don’t even react to it, like, or I react much less to it.

And so it’s, it’s changing the way I’m seeing the situation and. So I guess that’s, I don’t, I’m sort of dancing around your question a little bit here, but it’s, the idea is if I don’t think I have anything to work, um, that may be fine. I would just be okay. I don’t do the work, but if I really want to do this work, I, if I sit and just find even the smallest rub, that can be sometimes the most enjoyable kind of work to do.

I’ve done work on tiny, tiny situations. I don’t have a desperation to get out of that. Um, ’cause it’s not much stress there anyway. But what I find when I explore them is, um, I guess like I often find something that is unexpected and something [00:23:00] that, uh, actually has crossover to a lot of different areas of my life.

I think it’s really minor, but oh my God, it’s not minor.

Client: It opens up and what I think. The courage of this, I think is, you say it’s enjoyable and I, I agree, but it’s also, it also can be a little painful to go through some of these things. But on the other side of it, I think you kind of feel a little bit free, especially when you see the innocence of another person that you were so angry at.

So I love that, that you can just pick. So I guess one of the things I have to do is it’s the ego then sitting there telling me you have nothing to work. So then I can just pick anything that I, and I could go back to when I was 16. Right? Sure. I mean, I guess that’s something that I’m just starting to talk myself through right now.

I could just pick anything that just made that my chest tighten just for a second and just let the ego say, you don’t need to do it. Thank you. Thank you very much. But I’m gonna still write it down and [00:24:00] getting into that moment, that’s one thing I’ve learned that I struggle with as well is getting into that moment.

Katie stresses that so much. It’s so important. You do a really good job at, at helping when you’re doing the work one-on-one to write down how to get in that moment. Because what I tend to do is, you know, it’s hard for me to say I was so selfish because then I think I am a selfish person. Mm-hmm. Whereas if you get into that moment, you can just see how you were being selfish in that moment.

And then that is kind of where the, the growth and flip comes. Okay. Yeah. I have to ignore the ego and just kind of get in. Yeah. I, I’d sometimes

Todd: say there’s two parts of me. One is like the kind of wise part, um, kind of gets it knows this is really just, oh yeah, that’s just you doing that again. Oh, that’s really like not a big deal.

Um, or, or like really seize the, the wisdom. Um, like, oh yeah, no, that’s really. That’s so there’s a wise [00:25:00] part and there’s a stuck part. There’s a part of me that doesn’t get it. And so most of the time we’re letting the wise part kind of run the show because that’s, that’s intelligent. Uh, but when I’m doing the work, I actually want to set that wise part aside a little bit and let the stuck part start to show up so that I can actually hear what it’s saying.

It’s kind of crying in there, just like real quiet, sort of buried down there. But I’m kind of turning the microphone down and saying, Hey, do you have anything to say? And when I ask that, it’s like, yeah, but it’s not fair. It’s like a little kid. Like, what? You know, like it has that whiny kind of voice. And when I, when I let that tell me what to work, it’s, there’s always something like, you know, but I wanted to have that and it’s not, you know, like that kind of.

Feeling he should have listened to me. And those kind of right, those kind of thoughts, they’re, they’re ripe for, for doing the work. And so that’s what we’re doing. Like [00:26:00] sort of set aside the ego set aside, the sensor machine set aside that whole wisdom, um, thing that will, will spiritually bypass you, right?

They’ll just say, oh, everything’s fine. Mm-hmm. Uh, I dealt with that. I worked that one before. There’s a million ways that the mind will say, yeah, that’s, that’s not really, I don’t really need to do the work on that. Oh, I’m over that. That’s the wise part, right? But the stuck part saying, I am not over that, so please listen to me.

And if you can allow yourself to go in there, it takes some humility, some courage to allow that. But if you can do that, it will tell you exactly what’s bothering it. And then, and then you can just like being with a child, you can listen to it and say, okay, tell me. And then. Finally when it gets heard, that’s already healing in itself.

And then if you can go even further and say, Hey honey, do you wanna actually go through and do these questions? I’ll let you answer. Like the little stuck part can answer the questions. Is it true? And Kenny absolutely knows true. Instead of some [00:27:00] top down authority of wisdom or whatever, trying to tell it what to do, it’s like, no, no, I wanna hear what you think.

How do you react when you believe that thought? And who would you be without that thought? And can you find a turnaround? You know, like really sitting with that part of myself that’s, that’s gotten triggered. That’s a, that’s a beautiful thing. Um, so it’s, it’s almost always there, just gets covered by, by the part of me that, you know, is practical and wise and, and doesn’t have any problems.

Client: Right. That is So you just hit such a core just now because, oh my gosh, that was so beautiful and deep for me because half half of the work that I’m doing in this growth is. Getting into in touch with that inner child. ’cause the more I learn and the more people I listen to, the more I realize that 95% of our struggles in our adult, our adult life is inner child work that we haven’t done.

We’re looking for the love of our parents and we’re trying to get it with [00:28:00] our partner. Or, I mean, I’m learning that. And to go in there and let that inner child be heard has been so, like I have had huge crying out releases when I actually give her a chance to be seen. But I’ve never even thought about integrating the work with that.

Like when I find myself open and I’ll be like in a meditation, it’s okay, you can talk if you want to, but you don’t have to. ’cause in the beginning I was like crawling under the bed of my subconscious, grabbing the inner child going, get out here, we have to fix you tell me, you know? Sure. And that wasn’t working, obviously.

No, but I wanted so desperately to fix the inner child, so then I just kind of imagined myself just sitting there and just, you can do whatever you want. I never even thought to at that moment, do the work with that little girl. That’s huge. ’cause then you can, I’ve always been like, I do the work, I do my inner child work, I do my shadow work.

I do the work. Bye by, you know, that’s rich Todd. Oh my gosh. That might just, that’s a game changer. [00:29:00] It’s just to sit and even if I’m not writing anything down, but giving that inner child who is just screaming to be seen. Yeah. The chance to just work through the questions. Oh, that’s beautiful. Look at, oh my gosh.

That’s beautiful.

Todd: It’s very cool. Yeah. And, and as you, I’m sure, excuse me, are familiar, like as you do that kind of, you know, as you learn to listen to that child and treat it with respect and understanding and then, um, and then give it a chance to work its own. Issues out instead of me top down enforcing what I think should be on there.

Then like, as I learn how to deal with that within myself, it naturally spills out in relationships with actual children or with other people who are acting like children and like the, the patience becomes greater. Like it’s a, it’s, yeah, like you say, game changer.

Client: Game changer. So that brings me to the next biggest struggle I have.

I mean, I, I’m dealing with my inner child great. [00:30:00] My real children, that I have a hard time and there’s, there’s so much guilt and shame around parenting and I was listening to this one speaker talk about dealing with inner child work and. He said, would you ever say to a child, you don’t need to be feeling that way?

When are you gonna get over that? You would never do that. That’s abusive. Don’t do that to your inner child. And I’m sitting here going, shit, I’ve said that to my real kid. So there’s this guilt that comes in. Um, and so I found doing the work on even my husband or a coworker is so much easier and I feel, but when I’m doing it with my own kids, um, it’s really difficult when it comes to things like the idea in our head.

We know better than our kids. So I’ve tried to do the work on things like brushing their teeth or eating crap food. And I just hear Katie in, in my mind going, just do the work. Do the work. And so I try and then [00:31:00] I’m like, but I can’t just never let them brush their teeth again or just eat cupcakes 12 times a day.

And I do the work. And I’m like, I still think that they shouldn’t skip school or do drugs or, you know. So that’s been a huge. A huge challenge, and I don’t know if maybe you would suggest I just do the work on I know better, but even when I’ve done the work on, I know better than my children. I still go back to, but I can’t let them eat cupcakes six times a day.

Mm-hmm. So is there some sort of balance, because we only see the highlight reel when Katie’s doing her interview. So does she ever just say, no, you can’t have the fricking cupcake go away? Or does she just be like, honey, I don’t, um, you know, I’m here for you if you want to eat that cupcake. I’m like,

Todd: right.

Client: So I, I know is where’s the balance? As if you could speak to, and I don’t know, do you have children?

Todd: I don’t have children, but yes. Okay. I have, I have. Okay. But you dealt with

Client: children. You’ve met children. I,

Todd: I do. I’m, yes, exactly. Um, so I think [00:32:00]

Client: there’s, it’s an, there’s an investment ’cause we think that, that we are totally responsible for our children.

And I know mentally that that’s alive, that these souls have come through us. Um, but we are so programmed. To control and know what’s best for our kids. So how could the work help with something like that?

Todd: Well, I think you already, excuse me already. Um, kind of pointed to that is that idea of balance. Um, and I think that when doing anything, including doing the work, the mind has a tendency to go, like all or nothing.

So either I, uh, you know, if I do the work, then, then that means whatever my children say and do is fine. Like, I’m going to love what is so loving reality means like if they wanna have 12 cupcakes, they can have 12 cupcakes. Right? And, you know, that’s, that’s the mind kind of. Going to the other extreme, and this can happen when you’re new to the work or [00:33:00] anytime you, you find a turnaround, which is the opposite.

Like, you know, maybe we’re questioning the thought she shouldn’t have 12 cook 12 cupcakes, and then we turn it around. It’s like she should have 12 cupcakes. And I’m like, ah, what do I do with that? Now I, now I’m just, I’m enabling this kind of almost addictive behavior, right? This, I don’t wanna do that.

That doesn’t feel right. So the thing that I always like to keep in mind whenever I’m doing the work, or even anytime, but especially in the work, is that these turnarounds, these questions, they, they ask me things and point me in directions for me to explore. And the idea is for me to find some balance, but I have to find the balance, it might say.

Yeah. Um, maybe a little less. I. Eating, maybe a little less controlling of her eating. The cupcakes might be balanced, but it doesn’t say give her 12 cupcakes and make sure, you know, let her just do whatever she wants. Um, so when [00:34:00] I’m, when I’m doing the work, uh, I’m constantly checking in with myself about where is, where’s what seems and feels right to me.

And I’ll feel it like, this is uncharted territory, of course. So I don’t know for sure, but there is, if I’m paying attention, it wasn’t feeling right. Um, that, that she was not, uh, obeying me at all. So I was stressed about not being able to control her. Then I did the work and it starts shifting to, uh, I don’t have to control her that much.

It’s not, it’s like, oh, maybe. Maybe it’s okay that she has some junk food sometimes, but then the mind goes, doesn’t stop there and it’s like, oh no, she can have junk food all the time. There’s no, there’s no stop to it. So somewhere in the middle I’ll find that balance point for me that feels, um, that feels right where, and I, and I kind of stopped there, like, okay, yeah, maybe I could [00:35:00] back off a little bit on the controlling, but um, there’s also some genuine responsibility that feels right to me for the health of a child who doesn’t even have a fully developed brain yet and can’t, um, can’t take care of herself.

So yeah, there is a place where it’s actually my role to do that and it doesn’t feel stressful. But, um, somewhere in there, there’s that, that’s what we’re looking for is the balance. You know, analogy I sometimes use with describing the work is, um. You’re out hiking and you come across, uh, a snake and you get freaked out and you run away.

And then the, the work says, are you sure? Go back and look. Was that really a snake? And you go back and look and nine times outta 10, it was just a rope there. It wasn’t a snake, it wasn’t anything scary. But one of those times it is a snake. So I’m like, okay, well good to know. Okay, I’ll just stay away. Um, so.[00:36:00]

We’re, we’re using the, the work to go back and look at situations. Um, but it doesn’t mean that just because I found a turnaround that that’s now the new truth. Like no, um, it’s the turnaround there, like a medicine to balance out the original thought so that I can kind of find a place where I’m less attached to my original thinking.

So if I’m less attached, even though I’m disciplining my children, if I’m less attached about it, it’s doesn’t come across as, as desperate and it doesn’t come across as harsh and, and I don’t have to be guilty ’cause I’m doing it either or because I’m not doing it. Like I’m just finding my way with it.

And yeah, so that’s, that’s the process for me. It’s really, if you sum up this whole process of doing the work, it’s really about listening to myself. I. What the work injects is. Did you look over here? Did you try this [00:37:00] direction? Did you, it gives pointers, but I have to go and find, do those pointers, uh, actually make sense to me and or not.

And sometimes I’ll look at a turnaround. I’m like, yeah, I just, I don’t find the truth in it, or it’s just a small bit of truth and, and I leave it at that. I’ll just keep moving. And many turnarounds have both truth and not truth. Like they’re true and not true, or both things are true, right? Mm-hmm. You know, I should discipline my children and I shouldn’t discipline my children.

Like they’re both true and they have to coexist. And, and then you have to kind of feel out where that difference is. This is the, the art of living. It’s not just. Black or white. So that’s, this is just about bringing awareness to that. And then I’ll start feeling my way in the dark until I get more and more confident in a particular area, um, about where my truth lies.

And, and it’s always changing. So willing to adjust as I do.

Client: That’s [00:38:00] beautiful. Yeah. ’cause I, I keep hearing Follow your highest. Follow your highest. And I, I, you know, I, I’m learning what that feels like, but like you say, you feel your way through. I guess what just came up for me as you were talking is, you know, you know in your heart that you can’t let a child eat 12 cupcakes is our example.

So maybe there’s a boundary there. That’s where it stops. The problem comes in is when I start saying, well, they need to listen to me. I know better than they do. They should do the, and then I’m all pissed off if they argue with me.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: I think that might be the juicy part of the work. It’s not the fact that I’m thinking, well, they, they never have to brush their teeth again.

They can do whatever the hell they want, but I, yeah, that’s, I like how you say you feel your way and you set those loving boundaries and say, I’m sorry, honey, you can’t have anymore. And oops, I just lost my headset. And then when they, um, when they have a temper tantrum, you don’t take that serious or [00:39:00] personally either.

So I think that’s where the, the little corners of the work can come in. Oh, that’s beautiful. I just had that because I was really stuck with that going, you know, all right, their, their teeth are just going to fall out. And Byron Katie would say, question that. Do you know for sure their teeth are, well, I can’t just not make them brush their teeth.

So, um, and then she would say, well, you brush your teeth. I do, I do brush my teeth twice a day and my kids still don’t brush their teeth.

Todd: Right.

Client: So then I, the ego comes in and then I get frustrated and pissed off.

Todd: Yes. Yeah. It’s that emotional part, like where I am actually, like I’m, I’m pissed off that they’re not doing it.

Uh, like that’s something that’s bothering me. This is feeling personal, like I am not able to get what I want. And so that’s my work. That’s my work. So when I clean that up, when I do that internal work, then I’ve, I don’t, I’m not expecting, I’m not demanding. I’m, I’m putting firm [00:40:00] boundaries. I’m saying this is, this is the law here and sorry.

Mm-hmm. That’s just the way it is. But it’s not about me. It’s about this is how, this is what’s for your best health and I’m. You know, your parent. And so if I deal with that emotional part, whatever it is that’s grabbing me, then I’m less likely to go into a fight over it. It’s not like I have, it’s not about a power struggle now, it’s about just this is, uh, I’m clear that, uh, you know, in a way, yeah, everything’s fine, but I’m also clear that I’m your parent and I, um, I want you to do it this way.

And that’s the only reason I need to give you, you know, like, and it’s just really right. It becomes really simple and then it’s not a, and and kids respect that too. They see it. They’re like, you know, if I’m angry about them doing it, then I’m actually, I’ve kind of become weak myself, and they have something they can attack.

Like, [00:41:00] oh, hey, what? You know, and then the, the war begins. But if I’m just strong, clear, and, and, and know that I’m doing something for their good, they can have a whole tantrum. And I’m not taking it personally. So that’s the difference,

Client: right? That’s hard to say. Yeah. ’cause it is all about me, dammit. It’s all about me and my emotions.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: And the kids can see past your fakeness as well, because there was one time that my kids, they don’t go to bed, right? And they jump into my bed and they, they wanna cuddle, they don’t wanna, you know, and I’m tired and I just wanna go to sleep. And then it does, and then I scream at them and finally they leave in tears and then I cry.

Then I’m guilty that you, I could have just cuddled with them. I should have just whatever. The mind goes like that. So then I thought, okay, well I’m not gonna let my emotion get to me, but then I’m faking it and they pick up on that energy. So I ca I’m just laying there like, okay honey, I would really like you to go to, to go to your room now because I wanna go to sleep and inside I’m going get your ass to [00:42:00] bed.

So that would be an example of later maybe I sit down and do the work on that emotion of they, why they don’t listen to me or. Something like that, I think because kids can’t, yeah. ’cause

Todd: it’s all about how you are seeing it. That’s the, that’s what’s real. And if you’re seeing it as, uh, like you’re a victim of this situation, you’re gonna be reacting like violently and angrily.

Uh, like you can’t help that. Even if you put a mask over it, it’s still coming through. So the only way for that to change is that if I actually start to see it differently. And that’s what the work’s all about. Like starting to see the same situation differently. And when I start to see their point of view, I start to see what I’m doing or not doing.

I start to see where I still actually have a lot of control. Um, all of those things like make me relax inside. Then the same situation, they come, they want to cuddle and I want to go to bed. Um. It doesn’t matter what words I use. Some days I might [00:43:00] be even saying something in a very direct way that might even, people might say, oh my gosh, you’re, you’re really tough or something.

And, but inside I’m just, I’m, I’m not in that victim place where I’m, I’m in this kind of, uh, just nasty place where I can be real. I’m not being mean. That’s the difference. I can feel that. Mm-hmm. Because I’m not seeing myself as trapped. And that’s, that’s why I love the work. It, it gets me out of that trapped feeling, um, just over and over and over.

And the more I do that, the more I see it even before it happens and, you know, I’m able to do what I need, but, but it does not mean anything about how my external behavior will look. It might, might become stronger. I actually stand up for myself better having been doing the work for a long time. I used to be more of a pushover, you know, I can still be pushed over, but it was really like worse.

And, and [00:44:00] so you might, I actually now argue with my partner, whereas before I would probably just give in. Um, so right. It looks like I’m going backwards and like people might say from the outside, oh, you’re, you got, you raised your voice with him. Like, that’s not, that’s not very enlightened. But what the difference is in me is like I am, I’m feeling more calm and confident inside and I’m not afraid of that little argument that might have to happen.

And it’s not as ang personal, angry. It doesn’t like get me down for days. It’s just, okay, I just have to stand up for myself right here. Nope, you’re wrong. Sorry. You’re standing in your

Client: truth. Yeah. You’re standing in your truth and you’ve stopped being afraid of what that means. Exactly. That’s wonderful.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest question, one of the most powerful questions that Katie does in the worksheet is who would you be without that thought? And I think in that situation of the cuddling in bed, if I could just like be a [00:45:00] fly on the wall and just look not through my eyes, there’s this beautiful little child snuggling with his mama.

So it, I guess that it helps see things in a different way, not about, like you said, me, me, me, because. That’s our default. Right? How it’s all about me.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And this is happening to me, and that’s why I say victim, you know, like, ’cause I feel like it’s, I can’t control. I’m, I’m a victim. And, and then, and how do I react is like all trying to gain control again and anger and, and everything.

But who would I be without that story that, that I, that I’m a victim here? Basically Then, then I would be like, oh, you know, of course they want to cuddle with me. I mean, who wouldn’t? And is they’re, they don’t want to go to bed. They’re, they’re kids. And like, you understand that. And you also don’t forget that I am a parent and I know that what they don’t know is they have to get up at such and such an hour and they’re gonna be totally [00:46:00] have a terrible day tomorrow if we don’t get things rolling for moving to bed.

And so then I do whatever feels spontaneous and natural to do that. And, and then, and becomes simpler. That’s all.

Client: That’s wonderful. Wonderful. So I was wondering, I had a situation that happened. It’s kind of a funny story, but, and then maybe you could pull something out of this situation that we could do just a really quick demonstration Sure.

Of what the work might look like. I don’t have a worksheet filled out ’cause I was just gonna see what you could pull out of it. ’cause I was having a hard time. Okay. Um, because one of the biggest things I, I struggle with is I have a few days where I’m doing so well and then I will do something so terrible.

And I, I don’t think I just had a terrible moment. I think all of my spiritual work is over and I’m back at the beginning. So that’s one thing that I’ve struggled with.

Todd: Yep.

Client: But the, this fun I heard, I’ve always heard Katie tell a story of shortly after she had her [00:47:00] experience where the work found her. She was at home and one of the kids spilled a glass of milk and it went all over the table.

She just thought it was the most beautiful thing she’d ever seen. Like she loved to watch the milk spread. And I’m like, okay, Katie, I’m not there, but, and I always try to, I, I’ve gotten so much better since I’ve started doing the work and started doing this journey of not necessarily just flying off the handle, but I was actually writing an email to you about doing the work.

And I had a jar of green juice next to me and I’m typing this and the work is on my mind. And my 12-year-old had a VR set on and moves his hand, knocks the green juice all over my laptop, all over me, all over the couch, and. Fry’s, my laptop. And of course I go, oh, look how beautiful that looks. Of course that’s how right, no, I get up, I [00:48:00] scream, what the hell I told you to do the VR in the basement.

He starts crying, go get a towel. Don’t just stand, literally screaming, right? Trying to get the computer. And even in that minute, because I was, I had the work on my mind and I’m thinking, oh, he wasn’t supposed to spill the juice. Is that true? Of course this is true. He spilled the juice, of course, because it happened and I’m still screaming and we get it cleaned up the computer.

I have no computer, he’s crying and, and then I’m like, okay. And then I feel guilty for screaming and cursing and being so mad over an accident. If I had spilled the grain juice, I would not be doing that to myself. So I have this little child that I am just, just tearing into, right? And so. What could be something that I could have, like I shouldn’t have reacted that way.

Is that true? Of course, it is how I reacted. So I get that, I get the reality part of it, but [00:49:00] it what could you maybe direct me or guide me to pull out of that a little bit of what I could work on in that kind of a situation?

Todd: Yeah. Um, basically your, your emotions will tell you what, what is, what you want to work on, um, basically.

Mm-hmm. There are kind of two layers of it. First you react to what happened, then you attack yourself for reacting, you know? So right. There are kind of two levels there. I tend to focus on what originally caused me to react in the first place, um, and, and do the work on that primarily. Uh, but you know, the other is like the self attack that happens out of reaction when I do that.

Mm-hmm. So in this situation, um, like what if you were to, if you were to [00:50:00] look at that situation of having that green juice spilled on your laptop, you know, ruining your laptop, all of that, like what, um, what just happened there? What was happening on an emotional level to you? Like what was, what did your.

Uh, child do there and what, or what did life do? Who are you blaming, first of all?

Client: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I think in that situation, ’cause I could feel myself overreacting and getting so angry and not wanting to, but doing it anyway.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Client: So I could, like, I just felt it come over me and I knew that I shouldn’t be screaming and yelling and so that, but I couldn’t stop myself.

I couldn’t stop myself from screaming and saying just awful things like, you know, why do I even bother? We like, you kids ruin everything. And [00:51:00] I, I heard those words and I was just like, shut up. And I couldn’t stop it.

Todd: Right.

Client: So I was mad at him for, ’cause I had told him we play VR in the basement because, you know, this stuff could happen.

But I knew he was here. I didn’t correct him. I didn’t throw him in the basement to begin with. So it, it’s just one of those, I don’t know. It’s a tough one because there’s a lot of emotion going on in an instant.

Todd: So this is what we, it’s kind of like a sleuth thing that you have to do before you start the work.

It’s like, what is it? Yeah, that, what is it that was really bothering me? Like, what were you afraid of losing here? What, what caused that to be? Um, like what was, what caused that to be so reactive for you? What, um, what got touched there? What, um, what, like what did mm-hmm. Life do to you in that moment?

Client: Right. Hmm.[00:52:00]

Gosh, that’s a tough one. I get, I’m so used to reacting, uh, you know, when the kids make a mistake, isn’t that silly? Like, you know, it’s. It’s interest. This is something that I could really go into because, for example, if my husband dropped a coffee mug on the floor and it shattered, it’s like, oh, do you need help cleaning it up?

When my kids do it, I’m like, why weren’t you more careful? You know? Okay.

Todd: So what is it about your kids that’s different than your husband that makes that like, like somehow personal.

Client: Right? Wow. Gosh.

Hmm. That’s a good one. That’s, Ooh, this is juicy. Why do I, what is it about my kids that they, they should know better, right? They should be more careful. Mm-hmm. Um,

Todd: what does it say about you? Or something, you know? Right. Yeah.[00:53:00]

Client: Right. I, it’ll go down to, you know, I didn’t raise them to be more careful. Right. It’s, it’s my responsibility. I mean, they’re kids. Why? Yeah. It’s my responsibility. To control them better. Maybe that’s, or to teach them to be more respectful of their things or other people’s things. So yeah, it’s personal to me because they’re my kids and, and I’m raising them.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: Even though on a, on a mental level, I know that everybody drops things and so that’s, yeah. You’re getting deep in there, Todd. What do you think? Yeah.

Todd: Okay. Well, let’s, let’s play with that one. You know, this could be, um, this could be something we could work. It’s your responsibility to teach them to be more respectful.

Like this is the situation. Was it, did you say it was your son or? Uh, my son. Yeah, my

Client: son.

Todd: So in that [00:54:00] situation, um, he knocks over the green juice all over your laptop. Then somewhere deepen down deep inside. After we’ve been looking at it, there’s some belief that it’s your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful.

So in that situation, is it true?

Client: Is it true that it’s my response? So I’m sitting there on the couch, it’s my responsibility

Todd: to teach him, or it was your responsibility, like, you know, is that true?

Client: Right.

Todd: Should have done it by now.

Client: Right.

Yeah, my initial answer is, of course I’m the parent. So that’s what, then we sit in that for a little bit. Right? Yeah.

Todd: And one of the things I like to say in these questions one and two, it’s usually, it is just a yes or no answer. And yes or no are both valid answers because I’m looking to see what, what’s my experience?

This is meditation. So I’m looking to see what my [00:55:00] experience is and I’m reporting from there again, it’s coming, touching in with that inner child a little bit again. Um mm-hmm. But yeah, it’s your responsibility to teach ’em to be more careful. And then I’m like, yes. So, mm-hmm. That’s perfect. Yeah. So next question, just, just ask a little more, uh, more like, another look is, can you absolutely know it’s true, it’s your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful.

He just spilled green juice over everything.

Client: Yeah, it’s, I, it’s my, it’s my responsibility as a parent. Yes.

Todd: Yeah.

Client: And I know that I wanna say no, but I, ’cause I think that’s the right answer. But if I go deep, it’s Yes. Yes,

Todd: that’s right. That’s, that’s the meditative answer, not the spiritual answer, which is worth nothing. Um, so that’s what I want, and this is to really touch in and find what’s your truth here.

So next question is how do you react? [00:56:00] What happens to you when you think that it’s your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful and he just spilled green juice all over you ignoring guidelines for not doing that here and everything. Like how do you react?

Client: Yeah. When I believe that the, oh my gosh. I just, the anger just bubbles up inside of me. Like how many times do I have to tell them? And, and I then the. It just tightens in my chest and I then I go, I start the story in my head that I, of all the times I’ve failed my kids, or I’m a lazy mom because I don’t teach them.

Right. Or Yeah. I’m sitting there going, I, I have failed as a mother. Like in that instant, all those thoughts immediately, if you get deep enough, it’s not, yeah. I, it’s my responsibility to teach them to be respectful of their things. [00:57:00] Yeah. When I believe that thought, then that whole thing is a reflection of me.

Todd: Yeah. And then notice the reactions that come out. What happens to your voice? What happens to your body? What happens to your speech?

Client: Yeah. I, my, my, I raise my voice. I start stomping, like all my, all my movements are. Exaggerated. Like I pick up the laptop and I shake it out to let him see the green juice tripping off of it.

And I grab a towel and I throw it at him and clean this up so my body is exaggerated and my voice is elevated. I’m tense in my chest. Yeah. That’s the, the physical reaction.

Todd: That’s it. Yeah. So this is what happens when you’re believing this thought in this situation. Your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful.

When he is not respectful, you, you blow up. You know? That’s the, that’s the reaction. You can’t help it. You can’t, you can’t not do that [00:58:00] when you’re believing this thought. I like to say I’m under the influence of this thought. So it’s like, you know, being on a drug or something, when I believe it’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful and then he doesn’t, it’s personal and I react.

That’s what happens. And

Client: even just. Just that one guidance from you to get to what the thought is automatically makes the whole situation in my heart seem lighter. Like I can deal with the thought before I just figured I was a raging bitch. So that’s where the work I think is so magical when you can get into that thought.

Because now I’m like, okay, a thought I can deal with, like you said, under the influence. Now I just, the guilt is less already. I haven’t even gotten through the turnaround. Like I couldn’t have helped my reaction. Just like he couldn’t have helped filling it. Right. So

Todd: that’s right. Yeah, that’s right. So that’s the power of this work.

As we start noticing what’s [00:59:00] really going on, what is causing this reaction? What is causing this stress? Is it the situation, him spilling green juice, ruining a computer? Or is it the thought that I have when he does that, that it’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful? ’cause notice. When, uh, your husband spills something, it’s not the same reaction.

Right? Right. It’s still something spilled, but one is believing the thought. It’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful. One doesn’t have that thought there, so that thought that’s

Client: amazing,

Todd: is insight. It’s amazing. That’s what’s, that’s what’s causing the reaction. So let’s look at that even more closely, uh, with question number four, which is, who would you be in the same situation when your son spills the green juice?

Who would you be without the thought that it’s your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful in that particular moment?

Client: Mm-hmm.[01:00:00]

Yeah. In that particular moment, it would just be, and a thought just came to my head, but let me just stay in this for a second. Um, without the thought that it’s my responsibility, I. To teach him to be more respectful. I would’ve just quickly done what I needed to do to clean up the mess. And the thought just came in saying, what if it was my son’s friend that had done that?

I would’ve reacted completely differently because I wouldn’t have the thought that it’s my responsibility to teach the friend to be more. And I would have been, I’ve always wondered, this is such a whew, this is a big aha moment. ’cause I’ve always wondered why I treat other people’s kids or their friends so much more kinder and when, when things go wrong.

And it’s not that I’m a bitch, but that I have this thought, oh God, God, this is [01:01:00] wonderful. I just wanted to interview you and here you’re like healing all this. But yeah, I, I would’ve just cleaned it up quickly and dealt with, dealt with what I needed to deal with and not shame my boy. For an accident.

Yeah,

Todd: yeah, yeah. And shame, not shame your boy and not shame yourself.

Client: Yeah. That’s, yeah.

Todd: So that’s the difference. Same situation. We still have green juice on a computer. The computer’s still ruined. But without the thought that it’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful, I’m just dealing with the situation.

I’m quickly jumping, getting the cloth, trying to save it last chance. And, but it’s not the same anger response. It’s not the same, uh, like, like just, or shaming response, you know, either towards him or towards yourself. Right. Because part of, part of how you react is we didn’t look at, is like how you treat yourself when you believe that [01:02:00] it’s your responsibility to teach him to be more respectful and then you didn’t Ugh.

Right, right.

Client: Self attack. Yeah. That’s beautiful. So thank you. I just wanted to give a little example and then, you know. Of how that works. That’s

Todd: like one thought, right? That just one thought makes all, all the difference in the world. When I’m believing that thought, put that thought in the equation, changes the whole experience.

Take that thought out of the equation, changes the whole experience. Yeah. So all this is just preparation to see that it’s just preparation now where there’s a little more distance on that thought. So then just see if you can find a turnaround for this thought. It’s my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful.

This is the last part of doing the work.

Client: So turn that around my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful so I could just do the obvious. It’s not my responsibility to teach him to be more respectful. Okay.

Todd: So now we look for examples of how [01:03:00] that could be, could be true if there’s any truth in it, there may be, there may not be.

Mm-hmm. But let’s look,

Client: um, I think maybe the, the word responsibility kind of. Rings out a little bit. Like it’s not my responsibility. Like it’s not, the onus is not just on me to teach my child and to teach him. I can teach him in other ways. Like just being an example or, yeah. It’s not my responsibility. I can see there’s, there’s where you have the truth and not truth and that too, like

Todd: yes, yes,

Client: it’s my responsibility to teach the child, but not to the end all, be all of the child will never make a mistake or anything.

Exactly.

Todd: Yes. Yeah. Yes. That’s it. It takes pressure off. Yeah. This is the perfect example of what we were talking about earlier of where the turnaround and the opposite, like the, the original statement and the turnaround can both be true and could, can coexist. There’s truth in, [01:04:00] yeah, there is a certain responsibility.

True, but not to the nth degree where they can never make an error, make a mistake, um, and. Somewhere in that balance, it starts to feel a little bit lighter,

Client: right? Yes. So you just work those turnarounds and then another one could, so then I

Todd: own the part. Yeah, go ahead. Um,

Client: oh, I was gonna say, um, like you kind of own the yes and the no.

And then another turnaround could be it’s my responsibility to teach myself to be responsible. Right. And

Todd: respectful. Yeah. Respectful. That was the original word. Yeah.

Client: Respectful of, yeah. Because I can come up with a million examples of I’m when I’m not respectful of things, and so it gives a little bit more patience towards the people in your life.

Right. When you p you know, if it’s only, so like in that

Todd: moment, can you find where you weren’t being respectful, um, to your son?

Client: Yes, [01:05:00] absolutely. Yeah. The entire situation was not respectful to anything. It wasn’t, you know, to him, to me. Yeah.

Todd: Right. To

Client: anything. Right?

Todd: So then it just, the work always brings me back to myself.

What is my responsibility? Oh, it’s my responsibility to teach me to be more respectful towards myself, to be, teach me to be more respectful towards my son. And, um, and I’m doing my best with it. I’m not perfect either, and I don’t demand that perfection. Uh, but when I see that I can’t quite do it, then I can also find patience with my son when he can’t do it.

We’re, we’re moving in the direction of learning how to be more respectful, like trying to teach him a little bit, trying to teach me a little bit. But, but it’s not like all or nothing. If I, if he’s not respectful, then. He is terrible. Or if I’m not respectful, then I’m terrible. It’s [01:06:00] like no. Right. A failure.

Now we see two human beings equals actually, even though he’s the son and I’m the mother, but, but we’re equals on the level of growing as human beings. And now suddenly it’s, there’s adjoining there, um, which is, which is a different experience.

Client: Wonderful. Wow. Well, that was such a, this was so much fun. This was so much fun.

Thank you. I think this is gonna be very helpful, especially to people who maybe have seen Byron Katie’s videos and think, oh God, I can never do that because you know, she’s, she’s really good. Um, but it can be so juicy. And so tell us a little bit about what you do and where people can find you and what you offer to help people do the work.

Todd: Sure. Um, my website is the work as meditation.com, and you’ll find all kinds of things on there. Um, I have lots of something like five or 600 articles about [01:07:00] the work of Byron Katie there, so there’s, you can search and find all kinds of things. I also have a podcast, um, it’s called Wiggle Room, and, uh, if you like podcasts, you might enjoy, uh, listening to that.

And, uh, I do the work with people there, so, we’ll, you’ll hear more things like what we just did here with Michelle. I also answer questions there and, um, and I read an article usually at the end of the podcast, so it’s like a, just a nice little dip into the work. And it’s a great way to become more familiar with this process.

Um, I also offer online courses like, uh, you mentioned the Work 1 0 1, which you took, and it’s a, it’s a, that’s really my main course. That’s a nine week course. And you, you dive in and you’re actually doing the work pretty much every day, about five days a week. And you’ll get training on how to do it from the very beginning.

Um, you’ll get, you know, the very basics, but we’ll go through a lot of [01:08:00] nuances of how to actually put this work into practice. So my idea at the end of that course is that you become more self-sufficient in being able to just sit down and do the work whenever you, uh, happen to need it. And I also offer virtual retreats and private sessions and lots of other things.

Um, but basically just come to the work as meditation.com. Um, get on my mailing list. I have newsletter. It goes out with, uh. Interesting article every week about the work. Um, and just kind of start exploring, just dip your toe into it a little bit and get, kind of play with it. Watch some videos. Um, I have some videos on there as well, and just kind of get familiar with it and then if it resonates, go a little more with it.

That’s, that’s all there is to it.

Client: That’s wonderful. Well, I can attest you do great work with your clients. You’re so centered and patient and you keep them in the work. Uh, when they start to go on their ego tangents, you gently [01:09:00] bring them back. That’s, I I highly recommend you’re, you’re very good at what you do.

So, and thank you for taking the time to come and talk and kind of share a little bit about what it does and get in. How it can work with, um, bat shit. Crazy moms like me that, uh, have a lot going on. So thank you so much for, uh, taking the time to talk to me.

Todd: My pleasure. Thank you for listening to the time I spent here with Michelle.

It was a real pleasure to speak with her and if you enjoy, uh, listening to Michelle, uh, you may want to check out her podcast, it’s My Life is a total shift show. You can find it at anchor fm A-N-C-H-O-R fm slash total shift show with the dash in between. So total dash shift dash show. And I’ll put the link in the show notes so that you can, uh, go there and check out what she’s doing.

She’s [01:10:00] just getting started in a podcast like me and, uh, I think there’s a lot of cool potential for where she’s going and I think you may enjoy it. So once again, thank you for being here and thank you for listening and thank you for your interest in the work of Byron Katie. And of course you can always check out, uh, any, uh, more resources that I have for the work as Byron work of Byron Katie at my website, which is the work as meditation.com, and you’ll find all the courses I offer, all the, uh, newsletters, articles that I publish, as well as these podcasts and many, many other things.

So thanks for being with us. Hope you have a great week and we’ll see you soon.