Will I Still Feel This Overwhelmed in a Few Years? Long-Term Stress Management for the Highly Sensitive Person

Client 2: So in general, I’m a pretty goal oriented person and how I understood you described to do the work is. More of an exploration and not have a very specific goal in mind. Uh, you know, how we, how we will be, you know, like how I’ll be in five years from now, 10 years from now. How, you know, in general. I wanted to understand, uh,

you know, if we stay the course, what to expect, you know, like a few years down the line. Um, you know, when we cultivate this as a habit, uh, you know, uh, end game if you [00:05:00] will. Mm-hmm. Uh, what I mean, I know from my side, like, uh, the end of suffering in daily life is a very, uh, appealing to me. Like, you know, just, uh, you know, whatever happened, I understand completely that I can control how others will perceive me and, you know, uh, the world in general, what happens in the world.

But then I can control my response to it. Is that something that you think is a realistic, uh, goal with the work? If not, what, what are your thoughts in general? Okay.

Todd: Great question. Yeah. Gets right to the heart of it. Yeah. I also find the end of suffering, the idea of end of suffering, to be very appealing.

And I am right there with you, um, with. The idea of a goal. Goals are great for, um, anything I can control. [00:06:00] So if I can control something, then I set a goal and I do it and I act, take action, and I achieve that goal. Um, but with spiritual practice of any kind. You may have a kind of a goal end of suffering, but you don’t really have a hundred percent control over how that happens or when that happens, or to what degree that happens.

And so it’s, it’s like, it’s just hard to, um. It can be frustrating to hold that goal if you’re holding it too tightly. I know I’ve been very attached to the idea of enlightenment, end of suffering, um, just coming to place of, uh, more peace. Uh, and uh, and I think that’s a good thing. It actually informs my life.

I’m kind of always heading in that direction. I think it’s a good thing, [00:07:00] but I’ve learned also to hold that. That idea or ideal? Uh, loosely because I don’t have full control over, uh, when it happens, how it happens, if it happens, any of that. So, um, what I do have control over is my own practice. And so what I’ve.

Done as a result of this is just made my practice more of a steady practice, and I’ve noticed that when I’m doing the work more, I experience more peace. Uh, I notice when I’m doing the work over a longer period of time, more and more stressful stories fall away and things that I believed 15 years ago.

Are not causing me any trouble today. Uh, because they’re [00:08:00] gone. They’re just gone. And my experience long term is that when a thought finally does give up and go away, it’s done. It doesn’t come back. It’s completely done. And, and I’ve found that, uh, yeah, things that I thought were, were really. I would never get over them.

I look back now and that’s ancient history and it’s just not even, uh, a problem. That said, there’s. There are some that have been in process for many years, right? There’s some that I’ve been working on and they’ve gotten easier and easier and easier, but there’s still a 10% that’s still there and I haven’t quite broken through on that.

And so that’s a work in progress. Um, and I can also say that as I’ve. Found peace or [00:09:00] seen through my stories, uh, in some areas. Then once those are gone, I start to see other areas that I didn’t notice before that I was also believing and there’s some more stress there. And so it’s like layers just keeps, um, keeps pulling off, uh, one after the other.

So my overall approach with this is, um. I give life the universe God, as much time as is needed for me to end my suffering. And I don’t know what that means. Maybe, you know, I tend to think in terms of more than one life. So whatever it takes, uh, I’m willing to keep doing my work, but I don’t know how long, uh.

It will take for me to end my suffering. And the problem with the [00:10:00] future vision is that it can make me suffer now on an extra suffering, right? That’s the problem with it. So I tend to sort of forget about that, like don’t worry what the end product going to be. I’m just gonna concern myself with each individual problem that I come up with.

See if I can find less suffering right here in this particular, uh, situation. And that’s enough for me. It’s satisfying enough for me. Uh, but I have to let go a little bit of that desire to get there quickly to the end of all suffering. You know, that’s the, that’s the, the restlessness of a seeker that they want to get all the way done.

Um, and I, I’m. I’m like that too. Uh. So I have done the work on those kinds of attachments. I want to get enlightened. I need to get enlightened. Is it true I need to end [00:11:00] all my suffering? Is it true? And while that want is true for me on one level, it’s also not true for me. It’s like it doesn’t have to be such an attached kind of wanting.

Ah, yeah, I want that. But who knows? Who knows? We’ll see how it goes. And in the meantime, let me do my work on my neighbor who’s bothering me and see if I can find some peace right there in that situation. And, and inevitably I do. So that’s what I trust. I follow my own experience, uh, and I. I have these ideas of where it could go, but that’s beyond my experience, that’s in the future.

Uh, but my actual experiences, I can say just this weekend I was doing the work on three or four different things, and those things are so much lighter today, [00:12:00] Monday than they were on Saturday and Sunday. I almost feel like they’re not a problem now, so I hold to that experience. That’s where I, I, I feel like I’m ending suffering.

I end suffering in this particular situation, and I. Long term down the road. What I, what to expect in a few years is if you keep ending suffering today and ending suffering today, and ending suffering today, is it accumulates and I have less suffering, I can honestly say today than I did uh, 15 years ago when I started doing the work.

Um, so that means lighter heart, less heaviness, better sleep, um, more. Confidence. Uh, all those things are there and it’s a work in progress. I’m not, uh, I’m not like free with a capital F uh, so, so yeah, it’s a process. [00:13:00] Byron Katie says this a lot. It’s a process and I think any, any path of. Spiritual practice is a process.

Why? Because it’s a big thing ending all suffering. That’s a lot. And yes, some people just somehow come to it quickly, but lucky for them. My process is different. My process is little by little, seems to be getting better and, you know, still ups and downs, but the general trend is up and I’m satisfied with that.

It’s, it’s good enough. Um. Yeah. That’s my experience.

Thank you. You’re welcome. Does anyone else, uh, have a question or anyone wanna do the work?[00:14:00]

Client 2: Uh, yeah. I, I have a, uh. A practical question seems very basic, uh, but could be, could be fruitful. Um, just appreciating the question that was asked before and response first, very, very meaningful for me and on. So, and, and that was really macro. And so this question is gonna be a little more, a little more micro, uh, but I’m, I’m working on, uh, JYN uh, before this call, judge neighbor worksheet.

And yeah, I’m just, I’m just noticing that, um,

the distinction between, you know, we have these different sections and there shoulds and there’s wants, and there’s needs and, and all that. And sometimes, you know, uh, the, the distinction is pretty clear and sometimes it’s fit murkier. And I recognize that [00:15:00] part of this is just, uh, the way my mind works looking for distinctions.

Maybe that’s true for, for a lot of people I know. Um, but in particular, my question is around, you know, wants versus needs. So I, maybe this is a question around the work, and maybe it’s just a general question about human experience. Both. Um, I’m curious how we could sort of tease out the difference or, or what are some things that, um, can compare and contrast?

Sure.

Todd: Yeah, I think you’re, you have a good point that there’s kind of two ways of looking at it. One is in general human experience. What’s the difference between a want and a need? And the other is specifically when you’re writing a judge, your neighbor worksheet. And, um, and I can address both of those.

Um, so in general, uh, in the human experience, my experience, ’cause that’s what I refer to, uh. There is a difference between a want and a need. Like [00:16:00] for me, a need has to do with like survival. I need this to survive. I need food to survive. I need, you know, there’s different things that I need that, uh, are essential.

That’s what I consider essential for me. And wants are what make me happy. I like to do that. I, it’s, that’s my preference or I, I like that. I want that. Um, it can get very attached, but there’s a, a want is a little less strong for me than a need. A need is, uh, I need it. Like this is life or death. Um, and when we’re talking about our thinking and the mind, uh, when I hear.

A need come for myself. It’s what is at stake. It’s usually not my actual life that’s at stake. It’s not life or death in that sense, but it’s probably [00:17:00] life or death for my ego. Some part of me, some identity is feeling very threatened. And if it doesn’t get that, it’s going to be, um, it’s not going, it’s not gonna survive.

So I need that. I need. Her to pay attention to me because why? Because I have the identity. I’m the leader, and if she doesn’t pay attention to me, it means that I no longer am in power and I’m, therefore I have died as the leader. So, you know, that’s kind of how I generally think about wants and needs, wants.

I just want, you know, I want an ice cream or something. I want something, and it’s a, it’s just this desire. But it doesn’t, it doesn’t get to that core of I need that, otherwise I’m, something in me is gonna die. Um, and so that’s one way of looking at it. That’s kind of generally [00:18:00] speaking in terms of human experience.

Um, but specifically when you’re writing a judge or neighbor worksheet. Hmm. I tend to think of a, the difference between the wants and the needs wants come up on line two. Uh, what is it that you, how do you want that person to change? What do you want them to do? That’s the, the line two question, and then the needs are, uh, in order for you to be happy, what do you need them to think, say, feel, or do?

Um, and the key for this to my mind is, um. There’s several factors. One is the wants are very emotional. They’re just, I want, I want, it’s like a 2-year-old, we sometimes call it the tantrum, right? So I want him to listen to me. I want him to, you know, I. Get off his phone. I want him to, uh, look me in the eyes.

I [00:19:00] want him to, to grow up, you know, like they’re, they’re almost baby, like in their, in their intensity. Um, not always, but there’s a, it’s just I want it, I want it, I want it, and, and this is what I want. And it just want him to change. Uh, it’s. There’s not much reasoning there. It’s not much. It’s just raw emotion.

And, uh, and we capture that. That’s what I consider the first layer of the stress. All these wants. Um, it’s my argument with reality. Um, I want him to be different and this is exactly how I want him to be different. Um, and I’ll just bring in the shoulds here because they come into progression. So the next line is the shoulds, which is your advice to that person.

What, what, uh, what should they do? And. That is once you’ve gotten that emotional thing out, then the, the shoulds are like, okay, so how can I manipulate them to get me to do what I want them to do? They should see, [00:20:00] you know, that we would have such this great connection if you would just look at me, you know, and, uh, he should, um, understand that he’s just prolonging his own problem.

Two heads are better than one. He should, he should come over and talk to me, blah, blah, blah. So I’m coming into the, these shoulds or advice, um, that might motivate him. That might be some baby steps for him to take a little recipe or, um, something that’s going to get him to move in the direction that I originally want.

Now I’m still arguing with reality because in reality he’s not doing that. So I’m, I’m, I’m not. Uh, I’m not loving what is in that moment, but it’s a subtler kind of argument with reality. The wants are just like, I just want ’em to smarten up, you know? And the, the, the shoulds are, here’s how to smarten up and why to smarten up and here’s the details.

Just [00:21:00] follow the breadcrumbs. I’ll lead you there. So that’s, that’s wants and shoulds. And then when you come to the needs, um. It’s, I think the key for the needs is the timetable. Um, so when a situation happens, when something happens that’s stressful, there’s the moment it happened, right in this moment, I.

I asked him something and he ignored me, right? So that’s my little moment and I want him to listen to me. So that’s my argument with reality in that moment, and my advice is he should see that this is gonna benefit him. So great. He should do that. But the need is just after that moment, he’s already not listened to me.

What do I need him to do? To make it right for me. He’s already committed [00:22:00] the offense. Now what can he do to make that right? Um, and it requires a little bit of space and time, uh, afterwards. And so, uh, when I’m thinking I need him, what do I need from him? And the idea is when he did this offense, he kind of.

My belief is he hurt me. He did something to me like it hurt somewhere in here. Or he did. He created some kind of wound in me emotionally. And so what, what does he need to do now that he already committed that wound to address that wound and make it go away like he caused it. He can make it go away.

That’s what I’m thinking. Of course, that’s. To be questioned. Not necessarily true, but that’s my believing mind in the moment. And so I’m believing he, he caused my pain. Now I’m asking myself what do I [00:23:00] need him to do so that I can be happy again, so that I can just be like, I. No problem forgiving him.

There’s just nothing left here for me, uh, to worry about. And, uh, wound is healed. All is good. It’s all done and dusted. I don’t have to, uh, feel badly again. Um, so for example, he, he, um, what was the example? Uh, he. He didn’t listen to me, basically. Um, so what was my offense? What was the wound for me? Um, he disrespected me, was kind of what it felt like.

Um, so what would I need him to do to, to break that? First of all, I would need him probably to acknowledge that. He’s like, oh, you know what? I’m sorry. I, I noticed that I was, uh, treating you with. Kind of contempt or something. Maybe that was it. I don’t know if that’s exactly right here, but he would have to notice that he [00:24:00] did something off and then he would probably need to want to want to value our relationship enough to go further with that.

And then probably I would need him to actually apologize and say something or do something that would really fix it for me. Really make me feel like, you know what? I just love you anyway. Forget about it. It’s fine. Really no problem. Um, so that for me is the difference between a need on the judge, your neighbor worksheet, and a want on a judge, your neighbor worksheet.

The want is just first reaction. I want ’em to smarten up. Like I said, you know, I just want ’em to do it right and why can’t he? Uh, whereas a need is he didn’t do what I wanted to do. What do I need for him from, from him? To be able to be at peace with that. I need him to, to really acknowledge what happened and to, um, see the effect of that and to [00:25:00] make some amends that would really, um, right the wrong for me.

And then I can walk away completely. Again, this is still argument with reality. That’s why we’re still questioning the thoughts that, that we put on a judge, your neighbor worksheet. But it’s getting really subtle. It’s getting very deep, it’s getting very close to the core of what’s making me hold onto this.

And when I can identify that and then question that the, the freedom that can come out of that, uh, is the same kind of freedom as if he had done, if he, he had actually acknowledged what he did and for, and, and asked for forgiveness and all of that. So it’s like a, a way of. Unlocking that for yourself, um, without the other person having to actually change, um, in any way.

So that’s, that’s my experience with the wants and the needs.

Very,

Client 2: very, very helpful. Thank you. [00:26:00]

Todd: Well, it’s a lot in that judge your neighbor worksheet. It’s, uh, you can write. The wants, the shoulds and the needs exactly the same. I want him to change. He should change, and I need him to change, and it’s just. Ding, ding, ding, looks like the same thing. But if you sit in that and you do, if you meditate on that and you pay attention to some of those differences I was playing with there, you can sometimes tease out a whole, a whole host of different stressful thoughts related to that.

Um, and sometimes when you do the work on some of these, they can be very insightful, um, in, in allowing you to let go of the stress of that situation.

Client 2: One thing that’s coming through from your response is, is yeah, the, the degree of, uh, subtlety and also how that, um, opens up the possibility of, of, of our inner complexity and of dealing with the different parts of ourselves.

So, you [00:27:00] know, I’m, I’m hearing about the wants and I’m, I’m thinking about like, kind of like the 2-year-old you said, or kind of like the I, which is just, and that’s just the, the, the raw, like, I don’t like this. Versus then when you start talking about should, you know, I guess in my mind, supply the term, you know, the, the super ego or the inner critic and, and that’s, that’s a different flavor, you know, a different flavor of, of arguing with reality as you put it.

So I appreciate, um, the, the subtlety that there is within, within the different aspects of the judge in your worksheet. Better after this conversation.

Todd: Yeah, I like that. And I’m just building on what you were saying. When you get to the needs, it’s almost like really hitting the ego because that’s the part that got really offended.

Um, and got felt that wound. And that’s the part that needs that, that um, some kind of, uh. Action from the other person to heal, uh, at least [00:28:00] in, in the story version of it. And then when you identify all these, and then you question these, you can give all of these things to yourself. Um, and that’s very empowering.

Client 2: That seems like really the key. I, I think that clicked in a way. It, it hasn’t before. Just now that specifically when you were talking about repair, because I mean. Sort of a vague sense of how it works in, in other ways, but, but around the needs. There’s this, there’s this idea of it, it, it, it almost seems like constructive, forward moving.

Like, Hey, how can I move past this? Or How can I move through this? And then the, the challenge can becomes when we give that over or may come when we give that over outside ourselves to things we can’t control or depend on. So the promise is of. Supplying it for ourselves along with everything else. And, and, and, and that’s [00:29:00] how, how big would that be?

Yeah. Obviously a practice

Todd: that’s the power of the work of Byron Katie that you can, you can take. You’re not dependent on other people to change in order for you to heal. And that’s, um, so freeing, so empowering. So yeah.

If you would like to participate in open sessions like the one you heard just now, then go to the work as meditation.com and then go to the open sessions page and you can learn all about it, how it works, how to sign up for it, and you can join us every week. We have a new open session, only seven people, uh, join can join.

For each session. So it’s an intimate experience and it’s something that I think you may enjoy both for sitting and listening, um, or for asking questions or for doing your work. And while you’re at the work as [00:30:00] meditation.com, uh, go to the virtual retreats page and you’ll learn about a kind of. Option for doing the work.

Kind of similar to open sessions. We do it on Zoom, it’s spoken and there’s a lot of, uh, give and take, a lot of flexibility. And these open, uh, these virtual retreats are held every quarter, so every season and in them you will have a chance to do the work. Over many different sessions. You’ll have 16 sessions to choose from over two days.

Uh, they’re two hour sessions, they go through the night and day. So it works on all time zones and it’s a really wonderful way to come together, do the work, and get support for doing the work, and there’s no prerequisite. So, uh, join us and I think you’ll enjoy this way of experiencing the work of Byron Katie.

You can find that at the work as meditation.com under virtual retreats. [00:31:00] Next, I’m gonna read one of my newsletter articles called Why Bother About Differences Between Wants, shoulds and Needs.

What’s the difference between a Pinot Grigio and a Pinot Noir? They’re both wine, right? Be a connoisseur of stressful thoughts. A connoisseur is one who enjoys something with discrimination and appreciation of the subtleties. You can be a connoisseur of anything. A connoisseur of wine, a connoisseur of art, a connoisseur of jewelry, a connoisseur of detective novel novels, a connoisseur of tea.

A connoisseur of cinema, connoisseur of ice cream, or even honey, why not be a connoisseur of stressful thoughts? This may sound sound strange at first, but if you’re familiar with the work of Byron Katy, you know [00:32:00] that stressful thoughts are the entry points into freedom and peace. A stressful thought is a doorway.

When you identify a stressful thought and question it using the four questions and turnarounds of the work, you open a door and inside is often an amazing world that is both stranger than fiction, yet truer than truth. Through the doorway of stressful thoughts, the mind can find what it’s really looking for itself.

Some very strange kind of meditation if you think about it. We start with stress. We start with the opposite of peace. We look there first. These stressful moments, stressful situations, stressful thoughts, stressful beliefs. These little experiences of stress are literally the doorways to going when you go through them.

You will find the piece that you’re looking for. So that’s how the work of Byron Katie works. So why not become a connoisseur of these doorways? [00:33:00] Of course, this is an art just as being a connoisseur of wine is an art. The connoisseur never thinks all wines are the same. A connoisseur is fascinated with the subtle distinctions between one vintage and another.

Each one offers something different to the wine connoisseur, and each stressful thought offers something different to the connoisseur of the work. One of the things you’ll find early on when people are learning to do the work is they think, oh, I’ve already done this. Oh, this is the same as before. Oh yeah, I’ve been down this road before, no big deal.

And they just stopped doing the work. But for the connoisseur of the work, uh, it’s like, oh yeah, I looked at something similar, but this has a slightly different flavor. Let me just. Look at that and see what I can find there. And often with that kind of open mind, a whole world of, of flavor, if you will, comes to the forefront.[00:34:00]

Here are some of the subtle flavors to look for when writing a judge your neighbor worksheet. There is a separate line for writing your wants and a separate line for your shoulds and a separate line for your needs in the same situation. At first, this may seem repetitive. To the connoisseur, this is the place to pause and savor the different aromas.

So the wants line two of the judge neighbor worksheet is where you list your wants. And these stressful thoughts have the flavor of being driven by pure emotion. They have a strong body and a sharp nose. The shoulds on the other hand. Line three is a place to write advice for the person who offended you.

This is a very subtle flavor, easy to miss. These rarefied stressful thoughts are collected from a doist image of the offender. Seen nowhere else in the world, but in the mind of the victim. These projections of mixed understanding [00:35:00] when harvested with care can provide deep insight and direction. When turned around, I.

And then needs Line four is about looking for what you need to be happy. Again, these nectarine stressful thoughts hold the key to forgiveness and to unlocking the heart. Again, the mind believes that the other person holds the key. When you write these thoughts and question them, the spell is broken and the way to happiness opens.

Sure, you can write the same thing on each line just as you can eat. Ice cream without noticing other than it’s cold and it’s sweet. But if you have a connoisseur’s mind, you may enjoy reveling in the subtle distinctions between the wants, the shoulds, and the needs when you’re writing a judge your neighbor worksheet.

I find that when I do pay attention to these subtleties, my work is more satisfying to me and I’m less likely to have to redo the work I’ve done before. If you wanna become [00:36:00] a connoisseur of the work, you are quarterly invited to join us for a nine week online stress taste tasting course called the Work 1 0 1.

And I’ll end with a quote from Byron Katie’s book, loving. What is, if you catch yourself thinking, I want blank. Write it down. Otherwise, prompt yourself by focusing on exactly how you would improve the situation or the person. What would make it perfect for you? Write in the form I want blank. Play God and create your perfection thoughts in the form of so and so should or shouldn’t are.

Next. If you are unaware of any shoulds, think about what would restore the situation. Restore to the situation, your sense of justice and order. Write down all the shoulds that would make it right. And [00:37:00] I need is where you can bring the situation back in line with your sense of comfort and security. Write down your requirements for a happy life.

Write down the adjustments that would make things be the way they’re supposed to be. So thank you for listening. And be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Share it with a friend, post it on social media, leave a review if you haven’t done that, and stop by the work as meditation.com to get my newsletter to participate in open sessions like this one.

Uh, and to. Read the hundreds of articles that I have posted there on the work of Byron Katie, as well as information about the Work 1 0 1 course, the Work 1 0 2, which is all about spoken work, virtual retreats. Inquiry Circle, the Breakfast Club, which is a part of Inquiry Circle Private sessions and the Living with Money course, as well as the finding the Door [00:38:00] to Inquiry book and other programs that I’ll continue to develop over time.

Thanks again for being here. It’s a pleasure sitting in this and thinking about this with you. Until next time. Have a great week.